Irish L'pool fans once booed a League of Ireland selection ( lots of whom are amateurs ) who played their heroes.
Knackery, gypsy, unworldly dark side LFC.
Evra stands tall in the cauldron of Liverpool’s hate
(92 posts) (12 voices)-
atwwynne
Member
Posted by unregistered user: atwwynneThe balance of probabilities is the standard level of evidence required in any civil hearing in the UK. Without such a balance no action would ever be successfully achieved. To question the balance of probabilities is to question 1000 years of legal proceedings.
Posted 3 months ago # -
DeadRevel
Member Posted by unregistered user: DeadRevelI understand, but I think you’re giving them too much credit. No everyone booing was a racist, but they were all morons.
Just like the Chelsea fans who booed Wayne Bridge and ‘stand by their man’ whenever some lurid story appears or someone dares to criticise him.Posted 3 months ago # -
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
This whole argument about evidence is completely ridiculous.
One mans word against another...
But Suarez himself admitted using the "N" word... his excuse was... in his country it's not taken as insultive...
OK... but in this country and the rest of the world... it is... and you'd have to be from another fuckin planet to not know that.
Suarez cried cynical tears and KKK gobbled it up... then tried to do the "managerial, man management" thing and support his player... problem was... he was trying to dodge rain drops in a downpour... his man WAS guilty, was FOUND to be guilty by the inquiry, and still KKK tried to deflect criticism by wagging his fuckin finger at everyone else... United, the press, and worst of all Evra.
Now it becomes a case of how long do you hold on to a rising balloon... and the stubborn cunts refuse to let go... they have no defense for their position, but can't bring themselves to admit they're wrong.
There seems to be a hope that if they just stick to their guns with the claim, "we were wronged"... the whole thing will blow over in time, and they can somehow claim a moral victory, of never conceding defeat.
My hope is they're NEVER given a free pass on this until someone in Liverpools hierarchy admits, they got it all wrong.
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."Posted 3 months ago # -
Dave – “lack of understanding” is not based on a requirement for explanation. That’s twice you’ve tried to patronise me now. Do I need to whip out my academic, business and intellectual credentials for the mighty Dave? Let’s clarify: I am dumbfounded at Liverpool’s behaviour, which has caused huge damage to race relations and made a once proud club a laughing stock. I’m a United fan, but Liverpool is/was a great global institution.
Your insistence that “there is no evidence” is quite ridiculous, factually incorrect and 115 pages of thorough analysis later, incomprehensible as a position. What you mean is there’s no smoking gun. There didn’t need to be. The burden of proof, was the “Balance of probabilities” – more likely than not – and on the balance of probabilities Suarez was guilty. Did he call Evra negro? Tick. Was he offensive? Tick. Case closed. It was closed as soon as Suarez opened his mouth. The evidence from Evra, Kuyt, Comoli, the referee, language experts and Dalglish was compelling and damning. The evidence that Evra flat-out lied: none.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Aidan
Member Posted by unregistered user: AidanAlfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.
Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Aidan
Member Posted by unregistered user: AidanOne final thing, having been there on Saturday, I can tell you that it was not anything approaching a cauldron. There was an edge – no question about that – but this wasn’t Figo returning to Barca or a game between Vasco and Flamengo or a match in Istanbul or the Montevideo derby. And like it or not, United fans stood by Cantona over a far more serious offence and I didn’t have a problem with that. He, like Suarez, made a mistake.
We (will) move on.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Dinkinflicker
Member
Commenter said:
One final thing, having been there on Saturday, I can tell you that it was not anything approaching a cauldron. There was an edge – no question about that – but this wasn’t Figo returning to Barca or a game between Vasco and Flamengo or a match in Istanbul or the Montevideo derby. And like it or not, United fans stood by Cantona over a far more serious offence and I didn’t have a problem with that. He, like Suarez, made a mistake.We (will) move on.
Your last 2 posts are laughable. Suarez made a mistake did he? Not according to him he didnt.
'I will carry out the suspension with the resignation of someone who hasn't done anything wrong'
To compare what Eric did to what Suarez did shows just how misguided and far wide of the mark you are.
There isn't really a debate to be had here. Suarez racially abused Evra, and those associated with Liverpool Club have completely cluster-fucked their way through the entire episode, tarnishing their reputation considerably. End of story.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ashish
Member Posted by unregistered user: AshishI find it amusing that all media outlets,including this site were very keen and astute to observe that Evra was booed by the kop and convieniently forget that the likes of Valencia and Welbeck were NOT booed.
Now tell me,can racism be selective?
Posted 3 months ago # -
sheesh
Member
Commenter said:
Alfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.
Are you seriously this dumb? Racism includes discriminating against a player because of his colour. Why did Suarez need to refer to Evra's colour? The literal translation of what Suarez said is 'blackie' and the context in which he used the word was racist. Do you honestly need an explanation of why Suarez's words were racist?
Nah, sod that. Find the FA report and read it yourself.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator Commenter said:
Alfonso, Suarez did not use the “N” word. I know what that word is and I’m not going to type it although the second letter is “i”, clearly. No, he used the word negro (in Spanish), which literally translates to black (in English). He used that word (black) pejoratively.Honestly, I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on.
Mate... don't be a pedantic twat... I read the report... you can split hairs all you like... "Negrito" is what he said, and if you honestly think he was calling Evra, "Black guy", in a friendly way, then you're as big a cunt as everyone else trying to justlfy Liverpools ridiculous stance.
You got any black mates? Do you call them friend... or "Black" friend?
He could have called him anything... he could have called him "shit headed cunt, and no one would have batted an eye... but he chose to attack his colour... and everyone knows exactly what he was saying.
So take your... "I do wish people would get their facts correct before they start blathering on."... and fuck off!
Posted 3 months ago # -
Dave – This is really frustrating. No, you’re getting the fundamentals wrong. Deliberately, or out of blind faith, but its still very wrong. Suarez did call him negro – black – and in whatever language, in the context, it was offensive. Two highly qualified language experts gave reams of evidence to this effect. Unless you’re telling me that you’re a Spanish language expert? No, I thought not. In any case I’m now drawing this to a close. We’re returning to issues debated, and then found in fact by the commission. You don’t like it. Tough luck. My piece was about the disgraceful reaction by Liverpool and the club’s fans. In this the club is now isolated and roundly condemned. For your own sake wake up, smell the coffee.
Editor & Moderator at http://www.unitedrant.co.ukPosted 3 months ago # -
Dave – in the context ‘negro’ or ‘black’ is not a massive difference at all. Either way the word was intended to offend, and offend on the basis of race, because Suarez wanted to wind Evra up. Called him ‘black’ – Suarez’ own admission – pinched him, and then slapped him on the back of his head. It was a pattern of behaviour that was, in the commission’s words, wholly unacceptable.
The punishment was not down to the volume at all. It was broken down in the report after all. I thought you’d read it? Four games for offensive language under breach of rule Rule E3(2) – this is the minimum entry point under the rule. Thne a multiple of two was added for the aggravating factor of race. It’s a personal opinion but I think Suarez got off very lightly. I’d have applied the punishment per offence, taking volume into account. Eight matches times seven. The commission didn’t.
This is my point when I said earlier the case was decided as soon as Suarez opened his mouth. There’s not a court, tribunal or panel, under the balance of probabilities, that wouldn’t have found the same way the FA did. Did he use offensive language? Tick. Did he use offensive language including reference to Evra’s race? Tick? Was it in the context of an argument and therefore likely to be deliberately offensive? Tick.
As for email – I don’t see why this can’t be public. Or are you embarrassed about your position. You should be. Any other indefensibles you’d like to defend while you’re at it?
Posted 3 months ago # -
Dave – Four times now you’ve taken the patronising me in order to get across a point. Four times too many and for the final time. This debate is now finished, this is the most time and space I’ve ever given a Liverpool fan here. You’ve had reams of space to deliberately, systematically, and with no small degree of insincerity, defend racism. You’ve had a good run, but it’s now over.
So let’s be clear for the final time because you’re simply factually wrong and deliberately misrepresenting the report in almost every sentence. I’m pretty sure you’re not stupid, it’s deliberate. I’m bored of it, and especially bored of you. You also have a very poor command of English civil law, despite using quasi-legal language. Let’s be clear – this was a commission, working under the framework of civil law. It was based on finding facts, not guilt or innocence. On the balance of probabilities, not degrees of doubt. You think you’re a language expert, a legal expert, a mind reader, and most offensively, a historian. Jack of all trades, master of absolutely none.
But to the point – there is no multiple for the number aggravating factors in the judgement. There is simply – aggravation and a 2x multiple applied for that aggravation, no matter the volume. Use of reference to colour was the aggravating factor. The commission believes it was 7 multiples, but the penalty would have been the same with 1. That is clearly laid down in the FA’s framework for rule E3. As I said, I think it should have taken account the 7 and Suarez been handed a much stiffer penalty. Your boy was lucky because the commission could have.
But that’s all by the bye. You keep arguing this point as if your viewpoint is justification for the vile abuse of Patrice Evra on Saturday. It’s simply another smokescreen. “That’s why we booed him…” etc. It’s moral equivalence. Even the Liverpool fans, like yourself, that don’t resort to direct racism, or four letter words, or monkey chanting, engage in it. Everybody is victimising your poor club, so that’s why you have to lash out. 40,000 white guys jeering a black guy was a disgrace. It’s why nobody respects your club any more. They should shut Anfield until enlightenment reaches the city.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Miguel
Member Posted by unregistered user: MiguelAs much as I hate Liverpool because of the history between the 2 clubs, I always had a sense of respect for the rivalry. This incident has left a really bad taste in my mouth, and what ever respect I had for them has completely gone out the window. That fucker Dalglish must be living under some rock if he thinks that the booing was just banter. It was so sad to see, and I really felt sorry for Evra, not as a United fan but as a human being.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Good and I hope not. He's nasty piece of work, Terry - always has been and I'm glad that it's finally come out in some way.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Ashish
Member Posted by unregistered user: Ashish40,000 fans booing a black guy?
How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren’t booed.
I’m pretty sure that the people who wanted this verdict to go their way haven’t read the 115 page report.
If you did make the effort to go through all the pages instead of just brushing through the summary,you would have asked yourselves the following questions:
-Have you looked at what Evra’s initial allegations were?
-Do you know the word he originally accused Suárez of using?
-When did he change his mind about the word?
-How many times did he change his mind about the word on the day itself?
-How many times did he claim Suárez had said the word ?
How many times did he change his mind about that number?It’s no surprise that the Liverpool fans believe Evra is a liar ! If you only read the summary you won’t have a clue. Maybe it doesn’t matter how many times he changed his mind but how can you say that without reading about it?
If you do feel strongly about the issue itself, the accusations of racial abuse, it’s time you did read that report.
The longer you avoid it the closer you become to those who celebrated the verdict for the harm it might do Liverpool more than the benefits it might bring to the fight against racism.
The same United fans who always complain about The FA being harsh to United will lap up whatever verdict that goes their way as long as it comes at the expense of their rivals.
I suggest the United fans should stop lying by claiming that racism is the main issue here.It isn’t.
This entire issue is all about tribal point scoring.
Period.
Posted 3 months ago # -
sheesh
Member Another LFC fan with rocks for brain cells
Commenter said:
40,000 fans booing a black guy?How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren't booed.
This entire issue is all about tribal point scoring.
Period.
You thick cunt.
1. Welbeck and valencia hadn't complained to the FA about being racially abused. Look up the word 'victimise' in the dictionary.
2. Tribal point scoring? If anyone is guilty of tribal point scoring it's LFC who have maintained their player's innocence from the outset, during and after the inquiry. Tribalism is when mong fans like you fail to accept that a player used a racially offensive word irrespective of the number of times he said it (and get this through your thick head) and still fail to accept it AFTER HE ADMITTED USING A RACIALLY OFFENSIVE WORD. Again, I will make this clear because you are a a bit slow: it doesn't matter how many times he said the word, saying it even once is enough. Suarez can say they he didn't mean to be racist, claim the term is commonly used in south america or come up with some other horse shit excuse but, objectively speaking, the word used was racist. Why did Suarez need to refer to Evra's skin colour?
3. Liverpool fans only accuse Evra of being a liar because, let's face it, when was the last time they or the club took full responsibility for anything? Stealing tickets off your own fans in Istanbul and fuck it, I will say this, Heysel. It took English teams getting kicked out of Europe and 20 fucking years for you to say sorry. Shameful. Showering United fans at Anfield with cups of piss and shit whenever the 2 sides meet.
Posted 3 months ago # -
Dinkinflicker
Member Commenter said:
40,000 fans booing a black guy?How convieniently you ignore the fact that others like Welbeck and Valencia weren’t booed.
I’m pretty sure that the people who wanted this verdict to go their way haven’t read the 115 page report.
If you did make the effort to go through all the pages instead of just brushing through the summary,you would have asked yourselves the following questions:
-Have you looked at what Evra’s initial allegations were?
-Do you know the word he originally accused Suárez of using?
-When did he change his mind about the word?
-How many times did he change his mind about the word on the day itself?
-How many times did he claim Suárez had said the word ?
How many times did he change his mind about that number?It’s no surprise that the Liverpool fans believe Evra is a liar ! If you only read the summary you won’t have a clue. Maybe it doesn’t matter how many times he changed his mind but how can you say that without reading about it?
If you do feel strongly about the issue itself, the accusations of racial abuse, it’s time you did read that report.
The longer you avoid it the closer you become to those who celebrated the verdict for the harm it might do Liverpool more than the benefits it might bring to the fight against racism.
The same United fans who always complain about The FA being harsh to United will lap up whatever verdict that goes their way as long as it comes at the expense of their rivals.
I suggest the United fans should stop lying by claiming that racism is the main issue here.It isn’t.
This entire issue is all about tribal point scoring.
Period.
There's no shortage of ignorant, deluded and simple cunts on merseyside these days I see.
If you hadn't quite done enough to embarrass yourself with the bollocks you'd written, then you've finished off the job by ending your post with the word 'period'. Unless you're on one of course, which would explain a lot.
Posted 3 months ago # -
sidney
Member
Alfonso Bedoya said:
Don't think Terry will play, so that's another embarrassment avoided.He's on about pulling out of the England scene entirely
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/feb/03/john-terry-quit-england-mutiny
Apparently some senior players made it known they weren't happy with Terry being captain
He is a shit captain tbf. Brilliant on the pitch, but his actions off the pitch void what he does on it nowadays. He doesn't give you enough to justify the baggage; the Bridge shit, the press conference shit, now this race shit. It's another major tournament that he's plunged into turmoil. He's bad news. Get rid
Posted 3 months ago #
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