As transfer silly season begins in earnest, it’s beneficial for supporters to remind themselves of Manchester United’s relationship with the market …
Number crunching with Sir Alex
(42 posts) (9 voices)-
Posted 11 months ago #
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Jack
Member
Posted by unregistered user: JackHazard might be worth it in the end but i can see why we passed on making a big offer.
tbh i think Modric is worth about that but £20m for Baines/Tiote would be way too high.
my only problem is when we dont sign anyone, i dont mind not paying top prices but i get fed up of not taking the risks on cheaper players.
we need ball winners, we need creative players and we need to add goals.
Newcastle got Tiote and Cabaye for a combined £8m plus Ba for free.
the most annoying thing is last august Pogba was brought up as a reason not to buy a new midfielder, he never really got a shot and now is likely to leave.
i would love to see us sign Martinez, Modric, Felllani and pick up a Striker but in reality we probably wont sign anyone or just sign Kagawa (who is a great player.)
but i would be happy to see players sign that could turn into those types that dont have the price tags.Posted 11 months ago # -
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
Oh ffs Ed, not another one.
You and I are completely on the same side, on issues such as this, along with most United fans... but fuckin hell... every time you post one of these, it brings out all manner of meat head... and wreaks havoc on my health...
Wouldn't be so bad, if I didn't let myself get dragged into arguing with them until my blood pressure gets dangerously high, and the bile builds up to the point, it's nearly coming out my nose.
Note to self... *let the meat heads talk shit, will not get sucked in this time*.
"sigh"...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."Posted 11 months ago # -
Bill
Member Posted by unregistered user: Bill78 mill spend on Hazard – ridiculous
72 mill for Modric, Tiote & Baines – ridiculous
71 mill spent on Glazer debt – ridiculous
£7.5 net spend on transfers for the world’s biggest income generating team – ridiculousIts a crazy world we live in! Isn’t the financial system supposed to be in meltdown. Banks should just not be giving credit lines to football teams like they do. HMRC has it right. Zero tolerance.
I don’t blame SAF for not giving into these silly prices, but as you say it would be better if he admitted why this was.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator See, the thing is... in this particular instance, Ferguson has it right... those 3 players aren't worth the money quoted... but that will just be the excuse he drags out, when asked why he didn't buy.
Nothing will be said about why he didn't buy elsewhere.
The fact is... he'll use THIS argument, and these 3 players, to justify why he didn't spend £72mill... as if these are the only 3 players out there, that were even worth considering.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Owei nelson
Member Posted by unregistered user: Owei nelsonSir alex,we praise u for d good works u have done in d past years,sir present now the club is fallen down, for united not to take cup in a season also been eliminated from the group stage of the uefa championship is a big disgrace to we the supporters and the glazers family even to the FA,why can’t we straighten our team we have the money to buy players of any price tagged, why is it that we dont want to spend big money on players, but we want to sell our players in huge amount of money, we need to buy players like modric, sneijder, martinez, baines, kagawa and lavezzi to strenghten the team up, sir please we have this money pls spend this money to buy creative players, it is very painful for our local rivals to beat us 6-1 in old trafford, with newcastle, blackburn also doing thesame, it is a big disgrace to united. Sir alex, please we need your help to buy players to bust the team up, Thanks.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Bill
Member
Has anyone seen this Clyne geezer play? I still think its most likely we get Kagawa, Powell and Clyne. Alba would be a good long term bet to replace Evra but I doubt we would go for him. The other runner in the left back rotation stakes is Johnny Evans who has played there for NI.
Posted 11 months ago # -
sheesh
Member
I was going to write a reply in the other thread and then saw this post.
I am not a fan of any of the 3 players mentioned in the Cass article - although even Modric would be an improvement on the dross we've got. That said, given how desperate we are we may have to accept that the market is slightly inflated and roll with it as best as we can. Just because the market is inflated doesn't mean we should never spend.
There are players out there who may not cost the earth if we look hard enough and, if they're not good enough, we may have to bite the bullet and (if the cash is there) pay a little over the odds. Our need is dire. Other clubs are spending. We cannot just sit on our hands and do nothing....unless we literally have no money, in which case we're fucked.
Alfonso Bedoya said:
Nothing will be said about why he didn't buy elsewhere.The fact is... he'll use THIS argument, and these 3 players, to justify why he didn't spend £72mill... as if these are the only 3 players out there, that were even worth considering.
Posted 11 months ago # -
king mob
Member Posted by unregistered user: king mobwhat most annoying is that fergie and gill spin our measly transfer outlay as level-headed prudence. “The market is distorted, we won’t get involved in paying vulgar sums for players, etc…” now i could respect that and take a degree of moral superiority from this; Stepping outside of the madness casting pitious eyes at those fools with their gold. A bit like vince cable before he got tainted by power. The only problem is that were spunking £250,000 a day on financial instruments that are of absolutely no benefit to the club whatsoever. Yes, the markets nuts but thats the whole point of a market: the price is whatever someone is willing to buy. What’s our excuse?
Posted 11 months ago # -
Stevie D
Member Posted by unregistered user: Stevie DWhile I take the main point that we’re pissing money away on Glazer’s debt that we could be spending on that squad and Fergie is making excuses……I don’t think it would be that disastrous if we don’t sign three top quality players. I mean, last season wasn’t very successful, but we had our best start to a season ever, were playing some of the best football we’ve played, scoring freely…..until we were completely buggered by injuries! That completely derailed our season. If we have a fully fit squad, which we might do now that Vidic is back (bar Fletcher)….we mightn’t be in such bad shape.
I do hope we make one signing though, a top quality CM would be nice….it would certainly do no harm.Posted 11 months ago # -
Stevie D – all fair, but doesn’t history tell us three things: that Anderson will spend most of the season fighting off injuries and loss of form, Fletcher will never be the same again, and Vidic will be a yard slower than before. I’m certainly not suggesting United should sign the players mentioned – I just picked those three because there was an article mentioning them and the price by Fergie’s ‘mate’ Bob Cass today… and there was a nice contrast with the numbers that makes a wider point. You can call the market insane, you can claim to be investing in younger players because they offer better value, but in the end you either have to buck the market or be uncompetitive. I know which side of that coin I think is coming down…
Posted 11 months ago # -
Alf – it’s easier on Twitter, you just hit block. No second chances, no passing go, no collecting $200.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Alf – ha, not at all. Just saying it’s an easier medium for dealing with bone heads!
Posted 11 months ago # -
king mob
Member Posted by unregistered user: king mobjust read mr cass’s article for the mail. Given as ed said he was always thought to be fergie’s favoured snout, i tend to afford a tad more credence to cass’s articles, rightly or wrongly. If this is true, or has the slightest element of truth to it, then satire really is dead. Yes all very overpriced but i’m of the opinion that they would greatly improve our first team. And then there’s the little issue of 71 million in nine months. Seemingly fergie’s tickty boo with this. Not the slightest issue with it. I suggest that if this outlay caused a reduction in his 6.5 million yearly wage as opposed to the tumultous redudtion it’s causing in our transfer budget, he would be slightly more animated on the issue.
Posted 11 months ago # -
bman
Member
I'm very skeptical that United is even seriously interested in those three players. Modric sure, but I'd think we'd only be in for Tiote and Baines if they were offered at real bargain prices. The story sounds like the usual transfer window pulled out of the journalist's arse using the usual suspect name's, but if there's any truth to it, most likely he simply heard that Fergie said that Tiote and Baines were being offered at rip-off prices. I could say that I think Ferraris are rip offs, doesn't mean I was looking to try to buy one.
Posted 11 months ago # -
Stevie D
Member Posted by unregistered user: Stevie DEd, don’t get me wrong, I’d love to sign the three players mentioned! I’m not disputing the reasons why we’re not spending. And of course we can’t continue to not spend indefinitely, and remain competitive in the long term. I agree. And the excuses will become even less credible (for those who credit them now) the longer this baron spell goes on.
I just think for the season ahead, we may cope if our key players remain fit (and that does not include Anderson or Fletch). After all, we’re due some luck on the injuries front. We weren’t all that far away this season despite being severely hampered by injuries.
Maybe we should sign a new medical team….might be more value in that market!Posted 11 months ago # -
Herbie Simms
Member Posted by unregistered user: Herbie SimmsThe problem Iam having with all of this is that Gill has made 100 million available for Fergie to spend on players but he seems hesitant to spend any of the money. In these times, you may have to spend 35 million for a player that is worth only 20 million. There are bidding wars going on between the big clubs, so you have to jump in and put your money on the table. There are players speaking out that they are interested in moving on from their present clubs, players like Modric and Bale. Both these players are marketed at 35 million, so to buy anyone of these players we will have to come up with 45 million to outbid the other clubs that maybe intertested. If we were to offer Spurs 80 million for both Modric and Bale, do you think they will sell? They will not turn down 80 million. We have the money. With the 20 million left over and a 15 million sale for Berbatov, we would have 35 million to buy another striker. Thats the way to do business to get the quality players that we really need.
I just sent Ryan Giggs an email to see if he has any update positive information on transfer news.
I will get back to you on what he is saying about all of this.Posted 11 months ago # -
Bill
Member As I see it there's several levels of talent at PL level.
World Class
Star club player
Club starter
Squad player
Youth team prospectThe club starter level seems to provide alot of value, especially with players at big clubs at the end of their contracts. Examples of this Gibson, O'Shea, Brown, Berbatov, Kuyt.
We rarely buy at this level, but usually the level above, where you pay 5-10 mill more than a few ago i.e. Young, Jones.
The level where the prices are going through the roof is the World Class level. You are looking 30mill+ for anyone in that bracket. That is the bracket Fergie seems very reticent to purchase in. He has been stung there before with Berba, Hargreaves and Veron add in the financial situation and some Scots monetary stubbornness then it could explain a few things.
Posted 11 months ago # -
king mob – ain’t that the truth. Fergie never had any problem with calling out owners for his own wages, even threatening to leave the club once. And then in 2004 he SUED the majority shareholders. SUED them. It beggars belief really given his almost cultish devotion to the Glazers
Posted 11 months ago # -
Ed said:
king mob – ain’t that the truth. Fergie never had any problem with calling out owners for his own wages, even threatening to leave the club once. And then in 2004 he SUED the majority shareholders. SUED them. It beggars belief really given his almost cultish devotion to the GlazersDifficult to compare his action against Cubic Expressions to his relationship with the Glazers.
If the Glazers stole from Taggart you can bet your arse he would be suing them too. They are too clever for that - instead they drip feed Taggart, Gill and Rooney, the cash as and when it is needed.
As far as Fergie is concerned the Glazers give him what he wants or rather do not stop him getting what he needs - power and control.
You could have mickey mouse as owner of the club and you could pay Fergal a tenner a day and he would not bat an eyelid so long as he is the master impresario. But if you take away his power and control, watch him turn into an irrational old fogey.
In some respects he is a bit of a plonker, to think he could take on McManus and Magnier and win. He made his mistake against Cubic - and he will not do the same again against Malcom. He would never take on the owners because he would get spanked just like he did in 2004.
Taggart is doing just fine with 6m a year and he brokered a deal for Rooney at an even better with 8m a year. Remember we were sold a story that Rooney stayed because he had assurances from the owners - was that gag money? Or is that Fergus has a war chest but like the stubborn mule he (and Wenger) is he just wants to prove the world wrong - again, the support the power and control mentality.
Also huge difference between shareholders and owners - Cubic was never his boss although they were on the board I guess.
I think we need to look more at Fergie's actions as the emperor of OT rather than ownership per se. He wants to stay in control and he wants people to know that he is in control.
The "leaked" message about not spending dosh was I am sure pre-planned by Fergal to get the value brigade on his side. Not spending money to prove the rest of the EPL, fans and mejia wrong is one of Taggart's expression of power and control. It's similar to Wenger - he has principles and philosophy - and that is it. If you don't like it, you can fuck off - which is what Fergie has said. Not Gill or Glazer - and that is a big difference. Notice how the Glazers just stick to their shit and get on with ripping the dividend. It's a brilliant game - drip feed Fergal his power and ego with cash and a veto to do what the fuck they want. Give him money (my view is that Fergus has cash when he wants it) and then if it fucks up blame him for not buying.
No doubt that the leaked message was a Fergie media plant. The old duffer is still very clever.
Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking.
Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice - Steven JobsPosted 11 months ago # -
danni – actually I didn’t compare, I contrasted. I certainly didn’t say the two – suing Cubic and backing Glazer – are the same. But the contrast is stark. Pick apart the details of an argument I didn’t make if you like, but there are plenty of occasions throughout Ferguson’s career when he has taken on authority at Old Trafford – Edwards, PLC board, Cubic. Often for his own selfish financial reasons, sometimes for power, sometimes (but not often) about the team. But not the Glazers, not once, even though he is more powerful than ever before.
Posted 11 months ago #
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