United Rant Log in | Register to Post
sajjaad.ftw
Member
Wrong Article,Wrong Time. Lets get behind the team and stop branding players an embarrasment. Please stop writing articles as this at this time of the season. And SAF did not brand him an embarrasment, he just though it was a soft penalty. And stop reading too much into the situation.
To be perfectly honest this is a rubbish article.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
Look... all you lot trying to justify this diving shite... there isn't much I or anyone else can say... you lot have accepted that it's part of the modern game, so therefore it's ok... just remember that, when an opposing player dives to win a pen that costs United points, or knocks us out of a cup... because you've got no right to complain.
Me... I'll call them diving, cheating cunts... because that's what they are... whether they play for Liverpool, Chelsea... or United.
Red Dave – you get how polls work, right?
Jack Hawkins
Member
All the people here that call Utd ‘cheaters’ bear in mind we were also denied stonewall penalties for handball both against Wigan and AV – and according to debatabledecisions.com we should be 10 points better off if not fo incorrect refereeing decisions!
Ashley young IS an embarrousment. Nobody wants to see a united player dive because it’s really not needed, we would win the game anyway and gives the media and everyone else a bloody excuse to start shouting CONSPIRACY!
Gary Neville's article is a real insight into the moral dilemma at the heart of this issue.
Do I think Young is an embarrassment to the club? I voted yes, though my reason may not necessarily be the same as others - it's because he hasn't been clever about how he's doing it.
You might think that's an awful thing to say, but the fact is that is how the game is played at the top level. Look at *any* sport. Top level sportsmen push the rules to their literal breaking point in order to gain an advantage. It doesn't matter which sport it is. Whether it is first class cycling (hello new, innovative and most crucially undetectable drugs), Ice Hockey (hello cheap no look hits, hello well timed scrapping to try and take their best players out of the game for a few minutes), cricket (hello sledging and other similar things). Rugby isn't immune to this either, no matter how much people want to make out it is (hello taking easy tackles in League to retain possession, wrenching the ball loose in multiple man tackles, all kinds of horrid stuff in Union around the ruck and in the scrum).
So, being clear, being "professional" is a part of all top class sport.
Somehow in England we think we've been immune to diving all these years, and somehow it's only come in since the Premier League started, which is of course a nonsense. Franny Lee springs to mind as a notorious diver in the past.
The fact is, if Youngy is playing for England, and wins a penalty that wins a tournament, or means we don't get knocked out, or whatever, will the press / ABUs be up in arms about that? Of course they won't. They'd be talking about the naivity of the offender who stuck out their leg, or the "good professional choice" made by Young for the good of his team. Gary Neville's argument really rings true.
Of course, United could be some bastion of fair play, and that would be great. But when Welbeck stays on his feet, is fouled, and it isn't called, what would you all be saying? Or when United concede penalties because Gerrard or some other notorious floor flinger finds themselves felled fallaciously, fooling the officials for a game changing penalty, free kick or card, will you be happy we are the bastion of fairplay yet have lost another three points?
It's a pragmatic point of view. I love watching Barcelona but every time I see Busquets go over like he's been hit by a sledgehammer I flinch and am riled by it. And, was it a couple of seasons ago, when that Chelski player (I can't remember who, it might have been a full back) flung himself over someone's leg of course I was annoyed.
Cheating is horrid and abhorrent, but it is an inherent part of the game the same as any sport. No side is immune. Some sides are cleverer than others at it, though.
I don't like cheating or diving. I would prefer we didn't do it, of course I would. It's a nonsense to state anything other than that. I would much prefer to see us spank 1 fair goal past Villa, for example, than the 4 we scored starting with the cheating penalty.
But it is also a nonsense to suggest that you absolutely should never look to gain such an advantage. It is naive and it is stupid when, yes, every other side is doing the same thing.
Put it this way - if Young is through on goal at City, and Joe Hart clips him, but he stays on his feet and spoons his shot wide after going past him, due to him being off balance and no punishment applied because we got the advantage, would you be happy with that? Especially if Tevez or whomever on the City side consequently jumps over someone's leg, gets the penalty, and we see number 20 dissolve? Would we be stoic, "that's the way the cookie crumbles, at least I have my morals!" or would you be fuming at Tevez, the referee, or Young?
Bill
Member
Just seen replays of Juan Mata's "goal" against Spurs. The way he celebrates looks like gamesmanship to me. It clearly didn't go over the line. Nobody will be making much of that. There is so much cheating and dishonesty in football on and off the pitch in the name of winning. Why does everyone suddenly decide to pick on Ashley Young?
The whole Suarez affair reduced my enjoyment of the game period. So much weak leadership from those running the game. The NFL's handing of the Williams/Payton bounty scandal shows how thing should be dealt with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints_bounty_scandal
carew – Did Young dive? In my opinion, yes. Was he fouled? In my opinion, yes. These are not mutually exclusive. Now Ferguson has spoken out I’d be surprised if he does it again.
The rest of your post is little more than conspiracy bollocks though. Young was known as a diver long before he arrived at Old Trafford. Wonder how much outrage you showed then? Charges on hypocrisy might be a little closer to home.
carew – be careful or you’ll begin to sound like the Bitters across town
Just1n said:
So cos everyone does it then its okay. That's horseshit. And are you that insecure about the attack that you defend the dive because otherwise we would not get the goal. Fuck me this site has been taken over by retards.
Indeed. He's an embarrassment to club and himself.
If he learns from this then good for him.
Izzy manchester
Member
For goodness sake, why on earth is he a cheat?!? Agree his fall was over done, but who remembers ronaldo who would put his foot into other players and then go down! If your running at full speed, the smallest of touches will take u down.
Spudiator
Member
I think this issue is far too complicated for a simple "yes" or "no" answer. That Gary Neville article hit the nail on the head for me. In an ideal world I would love to see United take the moral high ground and be able to win without cheating of any form, but when no teams take the same stance, it just leads to an uneven playing surface, so to speak, and you have to question why you should put yourself at a distinct disadvantage for the sake of your morals. Ben's come up with 2 very good examples of the typical kind of situation I'm talking about, and it's exactly the kind of thing I could imagine happening.
Gopher Brown
Member
Last game of the season at Sunderland. 92nd minute. It’s 1-1, we need to win to win the trophy. Phil Bardsley clearly hacks down Ashley Young in the box. Stone-wall penalty. Not given because the ref knows about Ashley Young’s reputation.
It could happen. He needs to cut it out or when it really matters his antics will come back to haunt him.
uncleknobheadffs
Member
sid has spoken for me
because of him we'll now be considered a team of cheats, and unlike ron, hes not worth it, waste of money and hi#es a fucking hunchback cunt
im glad taggart has publically cunted him off, now fuck him off back to midtable and play nani (whos also a cheat)
Denton Davey
Member
Lee @ 12:10: “Least effective person in the whole squad, waste of space, its no coincidence he keeps getting subbed, crossing, passing, dribbling, defensive work- all poor.”
I wouldn’t go that far BUT he was a curious player on whom to spend so much money when it has been obvious that without Paul Scholes there is a gaping hole in midfield. Ashley Young is 26/27, very one-footed, not-all-that-good, and plays a position where UTD are strong. I didn’t understand the transfer when it happened and -despite some good performances – I still don’t understand why so much money was spent on him. NOW, there are rumours that Nicolas Gaitan is going to be purchased for another twenty million but still no Scholes-replacement ! Go figure.
Is he an “embarrassment” – not really; just a very naughty boy.
UTD would have won without that action – did Young deliberately step on the defender’s foot or did the defender step on his foot ? I have watched the replays on several occasions and it’s unclear. What is very clear, however, is that the referee had a fantastic position from which to make his own split-second judgement.
Gopher hits the nail on the head with regards to getting a reputation.
And Uncle also makes a good point - it's the impact on the team and the club's reputation.
So, again, being cynical and pragmatic, surely the issue becomes more about not getting caught, rather than not doing it at all?
squigs
Member
Bill said:
Just seen replays of Juan Mata's "goal" against Spurs. The way he celebrates looks like gamesmanship to me. It clearly didn't go over the line. Nobody will be making much of that. There is so much cheating and dishonesty in football on and off the pitch in the name of winning. Why does everyone suddenly decide to pick on Ashley Young?The whole Suarez affair reduced my enjoyment of the game period. So much weak leadership from those running the game. The NFL's handing of the Williams/Payton bounty scandal shows how thing should be dealt with. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Saints_bounty_scandal
The scenarios don't compare, one is a footballer going down a bit easily and another is organising over a period of years to deliberately try and injure opponents. Injury bounties in American football date back to the late 80s and will likely still happen after the above incident.
Mark
Member
No different to when other players go down anywhere else on the pitch to win free kicks, whether they feel someone place their hand on their back or the slightest touch of the foot(if any). This hole youngs a diver is being blown up so much just because he has the ability to reach the box before it happens. Other players will happily take a tumble outside the box to win a free kick for their team. Remember Charlie Adam diving against us before Gerrard put that free kick through a poorly made wall? Swings and round abouts is all I’m gunna say, if you can’t beat them, join them
Charmingman93
Member
I voted no, and yes I was temporarily embarrassed that he appeared to dive again, but we forget he had contact in both instances. The QPR player if his touch were heavier, and he was closer to Ashley WOULD have fouled him. The intent was clearly there. Of course Ashley shouldn’t have gone down so easily and shot at goal or assisted. The second instance, it seems he did stick his leg out but I think its less clear if he wanted to foul him. I thought I saw Ashley trip over him but exaggerated the fall, he could have easily composed himself.
So, I say its embarrassing that he isn’t taking chances but he isn’t an embarrassment to the club because he has never been the first to be a drama queen or dive. (Ronaldo and Nani anyone?)
JP
Member
Yes it was an embarassment. I am a villa fan and had to put up with his antics for 4 season. I am particularly embarrassed that he would do that to a club that gave him his break in top flight footballry and gave him a platform from which he could move to a bigger club, it shows the morals of the man. This may sound like a bitter rant but his antics will grind on you!! Even the villa fans would sigh and moan every time he took a blatent tumble. The past two weeks it has worked for you, wait till he starts doing it when there are better options and it ends up loosing you chances on goal, then it’ll p**s you off. For feguson to say its not habitual is a joke, he has been, and will be, doing it for years. That said great player, look after him :0)
Dave
Member
As a Villa fan who moaned every time Ash went to ground when the opportunity to stay up was there, I did sometimes think he was an embarrassment. It’s not as bad as feigning contact entirely, get that straight. But he’s good enough not to have to do that. And you guys are good enough to win without needing him to. Still, onus on the defender not to give him the opportunity. Right, that’s your banker out of the wy 
You must log in to post.
Video embedded using Easy Video Embed plugin
