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Just1n
Member
RobDiablo said:
Is it just possible that City brought on fresh attackers - Dzeko and Nasri - to play against a tired, shorthanded, and dispirited United side, and that somehow contributed to the additional goals?EDIT: my point being that the late scoring neither proves nor disproves that Anderson was shit.
Sure it does not prove anything.
Im just tired of Danni spinning the same tune. Im pretty sure if Anderson was a sub he would still be blamed for something even if he did not play.
denton davey
Member
Rob Diablo “he [Young] did much better than Nani, who couldn’t beat his man and, so, did not get in any crosses at all. Valencia seems to be a better crosser of the ball, but isn’t usually selected.”
This is an incredibly short-sighted view of Nani’s contribution – you could have said the same about his play in the first 60 minutes in Rumania but he then proceeded to be the star of the last 30 minutes. A player like Nani is ALWAYS going to be “inconsistent” – sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t. Usually, he eats Gael Clichy’s lunch; today he was taken off before he stepped up to the plate. The notion that Valencia is a “better crosser” is just plain weird – Nani has been the main contributor (in terms of assists) for almost two years. In comparison, Valencia is one-footed, one-speed and much more easily controlled by a quality defender.
RobDiablo
Member
Commenter said:
Rob Diablo “he [Young] did much better than Nani, who couldn’t beat his man and, so, did not get in any crosses at all. Valencia seems to be a better crosser of the ball, but isn’t usually selected.”This is an incredibly short-sighted view of Nani’s contribution – you could have said the same about his play in the first 60 minutes in Rumania but he then proceeded to be the star of the last 30 minutes. A player like Nani is ALWAYS going to be “inconsistent” – sometimes the magic works, sometimes it doesn’t. Usually, he eats Gael Clichy’s lunch; today he was taken off before he stepped up to the plate. The notion that Valencia is a “better crosser” is just plain weird – Nani has been the main contributor (in terms of assists) for almost two years. In comparison, Valencia is one-footed, one-speed and much more easily controlled by a quality defender.
My comments were not meant as a call to replace Nani with Valencia in the starting XI; I was merely pointing out that on a day when Young couldn't hit a cross into the box and Nani couldn't cross at all, having two mediocre plodders in centre midfield can make if difficult for even the very best strikers to shine. Nani was not having a good day by his standards, and I would have considered subbing him off for Valencia in order to try to get something going.
It is precisely because the midfield is so poor that opponents can commit extra players to shutting down Young and Nani. United have only had three good games in the EPL: Spurs, Arsenal, and Bolton, all three of which attacked United. All of the other sides have made United work for the few goals they have scored by organizing their defense, inviting United to come on to them, and then countering when there is a turnover. This tactic works because United have no creativity in midfield, so play tends to go down the wings, bringing the fullbacks into the final third, so, when United lose the ball, Evra, Smalling, Fletcher, and (if he can be bothered) Anderson are all scrambling to get back to defend. Cheatski, Norwich, and Liverpool were unable to make the most of their chances, but City cashed in on almost all of theirs.
madmax
Member
Cal,
With only 2 in the midfield we dominated possession in the first half. Seriously how would having 3 in midfield improved that? Quality mattered at that time. We had fuck all creativity from the central midfielders and wank crosses from the wingers. At one point Rooney and Wellbeck had dropped deeper than Anderson and Fletcher. If we had a quality midfielder we could have made that possession count. That would have opened up the game.
If we had an extra midfielder probably we too would have sat back and played a cagey game trying to nick a goal. Clearly Fergie didn't want that shite in our home game.
All the big teams play 3 in midfield but they have atleast one fantastic attacking player. Who have we got? Drop Wellbeck for 3 in Midfield and the only player in the team who can see a pass gets isolated, frustrated, pissed off and puts in a transfer request.
Just1n said:
Sure it does not prove anything.Im just tired of Danni spinning the same tune. Im pretty sure if Anderson was a sub he would still be blamed for something even if he did not play.
but what does he do? what the fuck does he do / has he done for four years? i have no idea what you see in him.
if he was shit and put a shift in and at least tried to tackle then yes you could say alright, at least he has the Alan Smith, at least he runs about trying to make a tackle or close down space but he does nothing - just watch him aimlessly wander around.
you take the piss out of fletcher yet if you compare four years of fletcher, hell even carrick, then you realise how utterly turd Anderson has been.
let's take it further, compare him to his best friend - the other young brazilian international Lucas who Benny Hill Benitez bought for 6m and after 3 years of lots of running around and no end product, is actually doing well at the scouse.
6m for Lucas - 18m for Anderson and although Lucas may be technically shitter then Anderson, he is far better in application, effort, energy and desire.
like I said, he needs the shit kicked out of him for being a fat, overpaid, lazy work shy money grabbing twurp
if you need time to settle in fine but at least make an effort to tackle and close down space.
RobDiablo said:
Time to sell Rio to some MLS club, perhaps. I think he'd like it over here; he could bring his iPhone on the field and tweet to his heart's content during matches and still be one of the better defenders in the league.As for Anderson... Let's imagine that instead of Scholes coming through with the original Fergie's Fledglings, it was Anderson. How many games would Anderson have played before either Keane or Cantona killed him? Trick question, actually, because Butt would have been partnering Keane in midfield.
agreed on all counts, didn't Harry Rednob want him early this season? Lnd is probably a better option, he can hang out with Ashley, "Lamps" and Big John Terry plus further his recording career. what a joker - all we ask for his committment to the cause.
captainhormone
Moderator
Thing that angers me the most, and this is aimed at fans and fergie too, is that even the purchases of Parker and Barton WOULD have improved us greatly.
Laugh all you want but for a top side we have the worst midfield in europe out if the elite clubs
Spurs, Liverpool and Everton have a better middle than us....and for 7 million we could have stopped some of the rot.
No "value" and no point wanting to improve something we clearly cannot afford too improve. Fergie has had years to do so, but has chosen not too.
It's laughable and bollocks to think we can carry on like this.
captainhormone
Moderator
...and that is exactly my point...those 2 are no De Rossi, Sneijder etc or Schweinsteiger, but they are better than what we have and for a couple of years would have kept us as contenders...on top of that playing for United would arguably improved them as players too.....Barton was free ffs.....
incredible
agreed on barton and parker - at least as good if not better than what we currently have. and more to the point, actually leaders with application, effort and desire.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
Just1n said:
Sure it does not prove anything.Im just tired of Danni spinning the same tune. Im pretty sure if Anderson was a sub he would still be blamed for something even if he did not play.
But he's right.
We spent a bundle on him, and were told that he was something to get well excited about. And his first season showed promise...
But he's been complete gash ever since... every once in a while, he shows flashes of something to suggest that there really is some talent there... but there just isn't the graft and application to maintain any great form, and he certainly doesn't seem to be improving.
I'm with Dannii 100%... OUT!
Just1n
Member
danniitronix said:
but what does he do? what the fuck does he do / has he done for four years? i have no idea what you see in him.if he was shit and put a shift in and at least tried to tackle then yes you could say alright, at least he has the Alan Smith, at least he runs about trying to make a tackle or close down space but he does nothing - just watch him aimlessly wander around.
you take the piss out of fletcher yet if you compare four years of fletcher, hell even carrick, then you realise how utterly turd Anderson has been.
let's take it further, compare him to his best friend - the other young brazilian international Lucas who Benny Hill Benitez bought for 6m and after 3 years of lots of running around and no end product, is actually doing well at the scouse.
6m for Lucas - 18m for Anderson and although Lucas may be technically shitter then Anderson, he is far better in application, effort, energy and desire.
like I said, he needs the shit kicked out of him for being a fat, overpaid, lazy work shy money grabbing twurp
if you need time to settle in fine but at least make an effort to tackle and close down space.
Anderson was signed as an attacking player. Not everyone has to run around and make tackles like Fletcher. when Anderson gets the ball i see a player who drives forward with the ball and tries to lay it off to the wing or other forward players (admittedly not always successful) If we signed a proper DM who does the donkey work then players like Anderson wont have to worry about tracking back. Thats not what he was signed for.
I dont get Fergie. He signs a Center Back and then plays them at full back. He signs a striker and plays them on the wing. He signs attacking mids then ask them to defend. Why not just sign a player who is the best at his chosen position like we used to.
uncleknobheadffs
Member
andersons got talent, but he's not a midfielder, and he's not talented enough to challenge for rooneys position, and he's not a prem player, should never have been signed if we didn't know what to do with him, which four years on we clearly don't, quieroz impulse buy
Just1n said:
Anderson was signed as an attacking player. Not everyone has to run around and make tackles like Fletcher. when Anderson gets the ball i see a player who drives forward with the ball and tries to lay it off to the wing or other forward players (admittedly not always successful) If we signed a proper DM who does the donkey work then players like Anderson wont have to worry about tracking back. Thats not what he was signed for.I dont get Fergie. He signs a Center Back and then plays them at full back. He signs a striker and plays them on the wing. He signs attacking mids then ask them to defend. Why not just sign a player who is the best at his chosen position like we used to.
Jay, this is where I take issue - even if he wasn't mean't to tackle, cover space, block, intercept, win the ball - he simply does not do what he is supposed to.
Honestly, he does not make mazy driving runs on a consistent basis and one which reaps results. He never puts pressure on a defence, he never turns a defender or midfielder around with his runs.
Has very rarely dribbles past players with silky skills.
He just does not do what you think he does - it's all a fiction.
Ryan Giggs in midfield drives foward and creates more than Anderson.
I'm open minded and looking for reasons as to what his contribution is but he offers close to nothing.
RobDiablo
Member
Just1n said:
Anderson was signed as an attacking player. Not everyone has to run around and make tackles like Fletcher. when Anderson gets the ball i see a player who drives forward with the ball and tries to lay it off to the wing or other forward players (admittedly not always successful) If we signed a proper DM who does the donkey work then players like Anderson wont have to worry about tracking back. Thats not what he was signed for.
I beg to differ on those last two points. Giggs, Scholes, and Beckham all defended - and they had Keane in the center. Unless Anderson can start to have the kind of effect on United's offense that Ronaldo had, I am unwilling to exempt him from his defensive responsibilities.
Football has moved on. 442 is dead and buried yet a lot of you are there thinking of the days of Roy Keane. Keane would be destroyed today if he had to play alongside one other in central midfield against the likes of City and Chelsea and barcelona.
We need someone else to make SAF see it too. If Rooney wants to leave cos he might be asked to play in the position that got him his best ever season tally of goals then more the fool him. No top team plays a central midfield duo and yet all I keep hearing/reading is that we should have signed a top midifelder. true. However, if we had started that game yesterday with carrick and alongside the two that did start we would have been better balanced. Anderson would have been further up. The manager knows this and just like last may and wembley he dug a hole for his players to fall into.
uncleknobheadffs
Member
also can people stop talking about this brilliant opening spell he supposedly had when he first came, it didn't happen
and don't fucking bring up gerrard
the spell he had last season when he scored against valencia and schalke before turning to shite again once hed signed the deal is his best for us, lasted probably six games
RobDiablo
Member
Calvino said:
Football has moved on. 442 is dead and buried yet a lot of you are there thinking of the days of Roy Keane. Keane would be destroyed today if he had to play alongside one other in central midfield against the likes of City and Chelsea and barcelona.
You are confusing two separate issues. A Roy Keane playing for United today would be hell-on-wheels in either a 4-4-2 or a 4-3-3 formation (it is up to the manager to pick the right one), but we currently don't have anyone as good as Nicky Butt was, so United's midfield sucks in both of those configurations.
Also, you might want to rethink your signature; there are at least four mistakes in it.
han
Member
sheesh said:
Thank God I am on annual leave from work for a week. Perfect timing considering the office is full of City fans. I will still cop a load of stick but it should be a bit more bearable when I return.
where the fuck do u work? stockport?
and more importantly, why work in a fucking council house full of blue cunts?
han
Member
captainhormone said:
Thing that angers me the most, and this is aimed at fans and fergie too, is that even the purchases of Parker and Barton WOULD have improved us greatly.Laugh all you want but for a top side we have the worst midfield in europe out if the elite clubs
Spurs, Liverpool and Everton have a better middle than us....and for 7 million we could have stopped some of the rot.
No "value" and no point wanting to improve something we clearly cannot afford too improve. Fergie has had years to do so, but has chosen not too.
It's laughable and bollocks to think we can carry on like this.
cap'n
i salute u
hit nail on unc's head
i'm sure i said something similar before the window closed but obviously was laughed out of rant
our midfield problems have been apparent for the past 2 seasons with scholes well past it and yet nowt has been done - we have ridden our luck far too many times with the bollocks we have had and yet even when a decent player is available, he seems to slip away for 1 reason or another which is usually down to the no value shite
anderson is too light and carrick is clueless; fletch has never been the same since the virus bout he had and even park is showing signs of carricktitus
i still am fucked about yesterday but as i said previously, its how the players in their ivory mansions react that is the most important thing now
sidney
Member
uncleknobheadforfucksake said:
he dribbles it out of trouble alright when he's playing well then loses his head when he approaches the las third
We dominated possession in the first half, but Fletcher and Anderson couldn't unpick the defence because they're hopeless. Neither could any of our forwards because they were fucking wank too
We really missed Scholes' play on the edge of the area... and Gibson's 1 in a hundred belters
Although Anderson and Cleverley managed to in the Charity Shield. That second goal was great
But yeah, if Ando was good enough there would be no debate surrounding him. His name would automatically be on the team sheet ala Keane, Scholes, Rooney etc.
Just1n
Member
danniitronix said:
Jay, this is where I take issue - even if he wasn't mean't to tackle, cover space, block, intercept, win the ball - he simply does not do what he is supposed to.Honestly, he does not make mazy driving runs on a consistent basis and one which reaps results. He never puts pressure on a defence, he never turns a defender or midfielder around with his runs.
Has very rarely dribbles past players with silky skills.
He just does not do what you think he does - it's all a fiction.
Ryan Giggs in midfield drives foward and creates more than Anderson.
I'm open minded and looking for reasons as to what his contribution is but he offers close to nothing.
Fair enough. I am probably viewing through Anderson tinted specs. In a game where Evra's side allowed in 4 goals and Rio was thinking about the NFL and Nani did fuckall in an attacking sense and even less defending and when Young failed to beat the fullback once the whole fucking game and cannot cross with his left foot we blame Anderson for not been a hybrid of Keane and Scholes.
We will never find replacements for those players. If we had a proper DM and played 3 in midfield we will already be harder to beat.
Im with Cal. 442 is dead. Unless you find 2 monsters like Keane and Robson, or Keane and Ince.
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