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sheesh
Member
Commenter said:
Patrice Evra jogged through the match; He’s jogged through the fucking season.I cant remember if Evra is actually a good defender?(NOT A FUCKING WINGER).When people say he has had a good game,It’s only in attack,I can’t remember a great tackle or anything defensively from him in such a long time.If i’m wrong let me know.
He's finished as a defender. If we had the cash, we'd buy a decent left back. Unfortunately, other (more pressing) holes need filling.
Herbie Simms
Member
Iam not bashing SAF. We are at the top of the league but the overall performance is crap! At 70 years old, he is just set in his ways and has run out of ideas. Its time now for a fresh new manager with fresh ideas or we will continue to fail in Europe. Yes we may continue to win the Premier Division title in the English league but we will not be considered a big club around the world if we continue to fail miserably in European competitions. Our style of football also needs to change. Look how we were destroyed by Bilbao, a fifth placed team in the Spanish league with a bunch of youngsters. It was their style of play that killed us.
sidney
Member
Fergie hasn't ran out of ideas FFS we just need a plan how to tackle this 'new' style of football that we've been owned by in recent years.
Bilbao play differently to Barca but the philosophy and the approach is the same; fit as fuck, skillful as fuck, pass and move to fuck. I'm thinking of the South American teams I saw at the last World Cup n all. Brendan Rogers just mentioned them on MOTD and how they influence Swansea's football.
I think their superiority is down to simple things, like how much time they spend with the ball in training. For a centreback to be able to dribble like that he must practice with the ball shitloads - more than traditional centrebacks do. And to be fair to Fergie all of our centrebacks, and our keepers are comfortable on the ball too.
But what we really need if we're going to compete is a more skillful, more 'aving it midfield who can play at a higher tempo than Carrick, Scholes & Giggs, and the bodgers like Jones and Park. Cleverley is a step in the right direction; someone who passes and moves, always busy, always looking for it.
We need a plan. We need to adapt. I think England does in general if it wants to dominate Europe like it did 4/5 years ago, and if the national team wants to be slightly less of a total embarrassment. I mean the fact we still turn kids away for being too small is ridiculous when you consider 3 of the top 4 players in the world are midgets. I could rant for hours about this.
sheesh
Member
From an interview last November:
"Everyone's saying 'go out and buy a central midfield player'. Well, I would do that if he were a Manchester United player. If we'd seen a young Bryan Robson or Roy Keane, we'd have been the first there. The possibilities of improving our team are not lost on us."
Gopher Brown
Member
I think the main problem we have is a lack of any tactical nous. SAF is not the Luddite many people think he is when it comes to tactics, but too often in recent years it has felt like he has written 11 names on the board and told them to ‘just go and bloody play, figure it out for yourselves.’
Good tactics can make a bunch of fairly average players look brilliant (just look at Bilbao the other day) and can make a brilliant team into World beaters (Barcelona).
It took us a long time to accept Carlos Quieroz’s 433 formation, but it delivered results. Our retraction into 442 in the last two seasons is ridiculous as it’s an outdated formation that does not produce anything like the fluency and movement we need to succeed at the top level.
JayJ
Member
Fergie is a world class manager. We are still fighting for the league and we have been in 3 out of 4 champions league finals. All this despite being strangled of funds. Wenger has got money and look at Arsenal, shit.
All those who go on about him bumming the glazers. What is he supposed to do? Do you think inciting a protest is going to help? How fucked up would our club be If the manager was saying the owner is a cunt, the division and press attention would be a huge distraction from the team and we would be nowhere.
Anyone who thinks that would force the Glazers out is a fool. They would be more likely to sack Fergie than leave. It’s a stalemate so Fergie is putting on a false smile saying all is fine but there is “no value”.
Jim
Member
JayJ. You’re absolutely right! They own the club. They’re his boss. The pribciple applies in any job at any level. You don’t bite the hand off that feeds you! What’s he supposed to do? Come out and say they’re cunts, and they’re robbing the club blind? Get himself sacked and what? Hope for the Red Knights to ride on in and pay billions to buy the joint, and then get himself reinstated?
han
Member
Commenter said:
Fergie is a world class manager. We are still fighting for the league and we have been in 3 out of 4 champions league finals. All this despite being strangled of funds. Wenger has got money and look at Arsenal, shit.All those who go on about him bumming the glazers. What is he supposed to do? Do you think inciting a protest is going to help? How fucked up would our club be If the manager was saying the owner is a cunt, the division and press attention would be a huge distraction from the team and we would be nowhere.
Anyone who thinks that would force the Glazers out is a fool. They would be more likely to sack Fergie than leave. It’s a stalemate so Fergie is putting on a false smile saying all is fine but there is “no value”.
agreed but then again, the man who says little also can speak volumes - he does not have to say they are great owners unless of course he means it - but sometimes he does appear a tad too quick to defend the yank fucks
JayJ
Member
I know what u mean Han, fans would prefer it if he wasn’t positive towards them but it is a tough one for him. The questions he is asked about the Glazers, the Ronaldo money etc are hard to answer without annoying the fans or the Glazers. Obviously he doesn’t want to do both but he can’t please both sides when they are so opposed.
I’m looking forward to when he retires and writes an autobiography so we can hear the truth. Bet there’s a lot of stuff goin on we don’t know about.
Fergie always has the clubs best interests at heart and I bet he is fuming inside about what the Glazers have done to us.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
Commenter said:
Fergie is a world class manager. We are still fighting for the league and we have been in 3 out of 4 champions league finals. All this despite being strangled of funds. Wenger has got money and look at Arsenal, shit.All those who go on about him bumming the glazers. What is he supposed to do? Do you think inciting a protest is going to help? How fucked up would our club be If the manager was saying the owner is a cunt, the division and press attention would be a huge distraction from the team and we would be nowhere.
Anyone who thinks that would force the Glazers out is a fool. They would be more likely to sack Fergie than leave. It’s a stalemate so Fergie is putting on a false smile saying all is fine but there is “no value”.
Oh bullshit... had Ferguson sided with the fans in the first place, we might have stopped the take over... and you're a fool if you can't see that... No it's not definite, but it's possible.
When the Glazers made their moves, was when anti-Glazer sentiment was strongest... but we needed a focal point, a champion... Ferguson could have been that champion... if he'd asked us, we would have marched on Old Trafford by the thousands... but instead he rolled over like a big hound, to have his belly tickled.
And the Glazers would not have dared to sack him... do you really think that they could? that is the most ridiculous notion... there would have been riots.
It's too late now, because many, including me have lost some respect for Ferguson... I still rate him as the best man to run our club... but the fact is... before the Glazers took charge he was practically beyond reproach... absolutely inseparable from the fans that considered him one of us... now we see that he has his own agenda, and his own loyalties... the fans are NOT his main concern.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
Commenter said:
JayJ. You’re absolutely right! They own the club. They’re his boss. The pribciple applies in any job at any level. You don’t bite the hand off that feeds you! What’s he supposed to do? Come out and say they’re cunts, and they’re robbing the club blind? Get himself sacked and what? Hope for the Red Knights to ride on in and pay billions to buy the joint, and then get himself reinstated?
FFS... another ridiculous reaction to a very simple idea.
Ferguson is rich... he's won everything there is to win with United... he has legendary status, and one day there will be a statue of him at Old Trafford...
So why could he NOT have thrown in with the fans?... the Glazers would NOT have fired him... that would be financially stupid... you said "don’t bite the hand off that feeds you!"...and you're right... but you've misplaced the real power here... the fans are the real "hand that feeds"...
And just for the sake of argument... so what if he did lose his job?... what would it cost him? He could manage anywhere... he would have been snapped up in a heartbeat...
So what would he lose? Nothing!
The Glazers are parasites... everyone agrees... and Ferguson has sided with them against the fans?
Maybe it doesn't bother you... that's fine... but some of us find that hard to accept...
dozer
Member
Alfonso Bedoya said:
FFS... another ridiculous reaction to a very simple idea.Ferguson is rich... he's won everything there is to win with United... he has legendary status, and one day there will be a statue of him at Old Trafford...
So why could he NOT have thrown in with the fans?... the Glazers would NOT have fired him... that would be financially stupid... you said "don’t bite the hand off that feeds you!"...and you're right... but you've misplaced the real power here... the fans are the real "hand that feeds"...
Your point would have been valid if the 'fans' were a large majority - not everyone went against the Glazers or there would have been empty seats every game.
You watch, if the prices are increased by 20%, the seats would still be full.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
That's not the point.
Fans are apathetic as fuck... they're just consumers to be fleeced like all good sheep...
Doesn't mean they're not at home seething about being screwed... year after year, people bitch about the cost of Sky, or the cinema, or their pint... but they keep going back for more.
Sheep need leaders... that's because they're... sheep.
Look at the media coverage Beckham got with that scarf stunt...
Had Ferguson spoken up loud and clear from the start... he could have mobilised thousands.
sheesh
Member
Alfonso Bedoya said:
And just for the sake of argument... so what if he did lose his job?... what would it cost him? He could manage anywhere... he would have been snapped up in a heartbeat...So what would he lose? Nothing!
Try asking the man who has built the club up from relatively modest foundations in 1986 to what it is today what he loses if he were to walk away.
The simple answer is that he loses everything that the club has become. From the point of view of the manager, the club is his baby and you cannot put a price on the emotional attachment he has for the club. It goes beyond the success on the pitch or commercial success. It's about all relationships he's developed within the club at all levels - from the academy staff to the tea ladies to the kit man to his secretary...and so on. It's about something which feeds his inner drive which means that he's the first person at Carrington at 7am in the morning. I understand 100% what the poster is talking about.
Ferguson is United. I'll bet that the day he finally steps down will be a day he feels that his heart has been ripped out - and that's why I can understand why he didn't start issuing ultimatums, or protest alongside the fans or start threatening the Glazers.
I go back to the idea about the club being his baby. Why would he rock the boat or do/say anything to jeopardise what he has built at United?
If you think he loses nothing, Alf, I think you're dead wrong. What Fergie loses goes beyond trophies or money or a big fuck-off statue outside Old Trafford. Why do you think he has opted to work beyond 70? What Fergie loses is intangible.
If what I'm saying is overly romantic nonsense, it's no more romantic, nonsensical or fantastical than this idea of Fergie leading the fans to a 'glorious revolution' against the Glazers.
Alfonso Bedoya
Moderator
No, you misunderstand me Sheesh... and in a way you've argued for me... United is Fergusons legacy... he's largely responsible for what it is today... but it seems to me that Ferguson has separated club from fan base... it's not HIS club... and it's not the Glazers either... it's ours.
This may just be my opinion, but the way I see it... football clubs can never truly be owned by anyone but the fans that support it...
The Glazers aren't even football people... they're just Shylocks, manipulating pennies... why on earth would Ferguson side with them before the fans... he may have sound reasons... it may be just as you say, to protect "his baby"... but at huge cost to the fans... he put his own agenda above the desires of the fans... he knew we didn't want the Glazers owning United...
My point about him losing nothing... maybe I worded that wrong... what I was getting at is, with what he's earned, and won with United, and at his age... there's not much more for him to gain... as far as the Glazers are concerned, he holds all the leverage... they couldn't threaten him with anything... from their perspective, what good would it do to to sack him... they're not sacking a man desperate to cling on to a pay cheque, or with lofty ambitions unfulfilled...
And I don't think it's romantic nonsense at all to think that Ferguson could have lead a "'glorious revolution"... it sounds silly the way you've worded it, but the fact is... the want was there... just not the will, or the organisation.
When the Glazers took control of United, a lot of fans turned their backs on the club, thousands more pissed and moaned, and quite a few even protested... what might have happened if Ferguson had personally and publicly thrown in with them?
Look at the G&G campaign... ultimately it accomplished fuck all, but it showed the numbers opposed to the Glazers...
Ferguson could have made all the difference in a few thousand complaining down their local pubs, and 10/20 thousand turning up at Old Trafford on match day... and you'll never convince me that we couldn't have stopped these leeches from getting their slimy teeth into United, if only we'd had the leadership and the organisation.
MrKirie
Member
Disclaimer: I read the full article, but not the comments, I have studying to do….
I don’t think Fergie ever intended for us to match Barcelona this season. We have a lot of youth, but also older players who need to be phased out. It’s a transitional squad and it will take time. Now, I’m not saying that in 3 years time we will be champions of europe and the new Barca, but to condemn what is being done at United on the basis of one season is ignorant. A few good purchases this summer, allowing a few players to retire and our current youth some time to develop, I can only see progress in our future.
Also, we’re most certainly in the title race and with the emptyheads dropping out of Europe as well, I for one am happy with the fact that we can take one game at a time, not risk additional injuries (let’s remember that we’ve had a heck of a lot of injuries to key players this season) and focus solely on the title. #20 
sheesh
Member
Green and Gold achieved fuck all because, relative to the number of fans worldwide, not enough people got on board with it. It also achieved fuck all because (and I've raised this before), of all those who bought the scarves, how many actually understood what it was about? I can only go off what I saw on match days but a lot of people wearing green and gold scarves were also going into the megastore - which sort of defeats the object of protesting against the Glazers. Not only that, protesters were actually helping the Glazers by paying money and going to the match. It's ludicrous. Then there are those who don't go to games but pay Sky subscriptions. So what was the net effect? Fuck all.
The fundamental problem with United being such a global institution is that it's harder to unite people for a common cause (especially when not everyone is anti-Glazer). The Glazers will never give a shit what a few thousand fans wearing Green and Gold scarves think when they know full well that there are many more fans in the Far East who will buy football shirts and other tat.
If we were the size of Charlton Athletic, for example, it would be far easier to get people to understand what the cause is about, get them to protest in sufficient numbers and protest in a manner that is actually going to make a difference. This will never happen at United. We're not a community, we're just not. We haven't been for some time. When you become as big as we are, you lose that. We're a money making machine.
Besides, the Glazers don't care about protests. All they care about is the bottom line and, if the bottom line is affected, who suffers? United do. I fully accept that there is no longer a waiting list at United but I think that this has more to do with the cost of season tickets going up, Automatic Cup Scheme and so on than any protest.
Fergie is smarter than getting involved in a protest which probably wasn't going to lead to anything which I assume is why he didn't get involved. I don't believe he ever feared upsetting the owners but his fundamental priority is the team. He never wanted to walk so it was a question of making a compromise - being given full autonomy to run the team as he sees fit and to keep his mouth shut about everything else.
Alf, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. I personally think that the idea of United fans stopping the Glazers is pie in the sky. It's going to take someone with cash to make them hand over the club lock, stock and barrel.
squigs
Member
United fans don't have it in them to think past the short term, we have seen it plenty of times. Shareholders United was good but after fighting off Murdoch but never pushed on to acquire a stake to give the fans a true voice. A lot of the talk from the fans after the takeover was bravado. Yes a few went to FCUM but crowds stayed consistent in spite of various price hikes and even the playing side sustained a remarkable level of success on the pitch.
Fergie is no angel, Roy Keane had it spot on when he said that he puts himself first. Yes support might increase hugely if Fergie made a stand, but on the other hand he is out of the job and the Glazers will have another manager.
Fergie is not going to back the wrong horse.
chocolatteballs
Member
Always a good enough squad to challenge for the Prem but few of these players are good enough for Cl or Ueafa cup like we saw against Bilbio.
He knows this but instead of replacing players he just gives them new contracts at the end of each season . I think he worries more about assembling a squad that are gonna beat stoke and Liverpool away than he is about creating a team that plays fluent confident football.
It's depressing.
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