United Rant

1. Alfonso Bedoya
   Moderator

   Ashley Young is a Valencia for the left... a starter for a midtable team, and bench option for a top of the table team... why oh why oh why does United not have higher ambitions than these players anymore... we're supposed to be looking for, and signing the Ronaldos, Schweinsteigers, Sneijders, Ozils, Benzemas...

   Not the Bebes, Youngs, Cattermoles, Adams, Downings... ffs... where's our fuckin pride?

   "Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. triggs
   Member

   Cal, you really need to let this Downing thing go, it's embarrassing. Downing is average, Young is good but maybe not good enough for a CL team, Adam Johnson is the real English left-sided talent but he's undervalued and underused by Mancini. If Johnson was at a non-top 6 club, he would probably be one of our main targets. Instead he's going to rot on the bench at Citeh.

   One thing I've been wondering is now that Shrek is signed up to this huge contract, does that mean we have more flexibility when approaching already reasonably established players like Pastore and Sanchez with contract offers? I know there's a theory that we didn't even go for Ozil last summer because he would have blown apart our wage structure and further complicated Rooney's negotiations.

   My point is, has Rooney's strop and new contract given Fergie more licence to go for these more expensive (purely in wages terms) players?

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. Bill
   Member

   On the subject of Rodwell do you think that his Scots mate Moyes is a small factor in making Rodwell a priority signing. 15-20 mill would be very much appreciated by Moyes at the moment! Networking!

   I can see why people think we should be going for the big names, but considering United's transfer policy, the financial state of the club and the fact that the big money signings of the last 5 seasons (Berbatov, Hargreaves, Anderson) have failed to make the impact they were supposed to, it leads you to the conclusion that we will be going for younger players who below the tier of world class.

   They will have to justify their transfers to the Gimps and they will be much happier with Young, Rodwell and Stekelenberg signings who cost less and command less wages too.

   Again its whether you are talking about who you want to sign or what is actually going to happen.

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. triggs
   Member

   If anything the recent history has suggested that the more you spend the more value you get.

   Hargreaves - £18M, good first season, then plagued by injuries.
   Anderson - £20M, good first season, shaky next two, some signs of quality this season - still too infrequent, but promising.
   Nani - £18M, one of the players of the season, most assists in the PL by far.
   Da Silvas - £10M, awesome prospects.
   Berbatov - £30M, struggled to find his role first two years, finally played as a no.9 and returns with 20 goals.
   Tosic - £6M, decent player, never really given a chance.
   Manucho - £1M, crap.
   de Laet, £unsure, i'm unconvinced.
   Owen - Free, some decent cameos, generally a waste of a squad place, arguably helped improve Rooney's striking instincts last season.
   Valencia - £18M, excellent first season, sorely missed this year.
   Obertan - £3M, on borrowed time.
   Diouf, - £unsure, not looked United quality
   Hernandez - circa £10M, but signs of a future world class striker.
   Smalling - circa £10M, young player of the year?
   Bebe - £8M, raw talent, a good two seasons away from being anywhere near good enough - most of this fee used to oil future deals through Mendes.

   This kind of shows that you get what you pay for. The only true bargains that have come off are the Da Silvas, Smalling and Hernandez. Still that's a total cost of about £35M for four unestablished young players, which is not that cheap.

   If Fergie wants to improve the first team, he's gonna have to stump up the kind of fee he got Valencia for.

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. Bill
   Member

   Rodwell = 17.5 mill
   Young = 17.5 mill

   Both look like pretty close to Valencia's fee to me.

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. triggs
   Member

   Young's contract is running out, so it will be nearer £10M.

   But I wasnt really getting at those type of players, as they are expensive in terms of United's last four transfer windows. My point was that United cant keep taking cheap punts on the likes of Obertan, Owen, Diouf, Tosic, Manucho and Bebe hoping that they're going to come good. At some point, like they did with Hargo, Anderson, Nani, Valencia and Berba, you have to pay big money. In terms of the midfield, that point was last summer.

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. Bill
   Member

   I think they are starting to go for the mid range players who will at least contribute, and not completely bomb. The cheapos and too expensive ones are risky signings.

   Its actually amazing that they have missed on so many signings. There has to be a formula to signing a player. Quality, experience, injury record, family background, off the field habits.

   Hernandez with his family background, experience, attitude and quality has to be a low risk. Smalling too seems to be pretty articulate and level headed. Bebe is such a risk with no experience at the highest level, no close personal support and no knowledge of English.

   You are probably right with Young as his contract ends in summer 2012, like Stekelenberg. We should be able to get both for no more than 25 mill. Rodwell signed a new contract recently so will cost more.

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. bman
   Member

   Young was crap on the left, he's not even left footed. Has been doing well as the central attacking midfielder for Villa this season, but there are much better players for that position out there (Pastore, Gotze, Hamsik etc.). I'm not excited about the Young rumours AT ALL.

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. sheesh
   Member

   Alfonso Bedoya said:
   Ashley Young is a Valencia for the left... a starter for a midtable team, and bench option for a top of the table team... why oh why oh why does United not have higher ambitions than these players anymore... we're supposed to be looking for, and signing the Ronaldos, Schweinsteigers, Sneijders, Ozils, Benzemas...

   Not the Bebes, Youngs, Cattermoles, Adams, Downings... ffs... where's our fuckin pride?

   We're turning into a Liverpool mkII, doomed to repeat the mistakes of others.

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    Thing is Sheeshy... looking at Suarez, Meireles, Kelly, Carrol... I'm feeling a bit envious...

    Envious of the Verrrmin... that can't be right, can it?

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Ted
    Member

    Just get this season out the way. Bring the white van brigade in to take gin soak to hospital, wave good bye then get Jose on speed dial. He'll go through your carricks, Gibbo's, Fletchers, Ando's with a coach and fuckin horses.

    O.T. is full of yes men, has been for too long. It needs to stop.

    "NOT MANY MANAGERS CAN SAY THEY'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN A NINE GOAL THRILLER AGAINST THE CHAMPIONS".
    Forest manager Ron Atkinson after they'd just lost 8-1 at home to Manchester United.

    Posted 1 year ago #

12. sheesh
    Member

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    Thing is Sheeshy... looking at Suarez, Meireles, Kelly, Carrol... I'm feeling a bit envious...

    Envious of the Verrrmin... that can't be right, can it?

    When I say Liverpool mark II, I mean the Liverpool that fell into decline after their last title win. They failed to replace their legends adequately and ended up with mediocre rubbish. Roy Evans turned them into an entertaining side after the mess Souness created but they have never been the same.

    Suarez is already looking like an absolute bargain. The way he can get past players is impressive. That goal Liverpool scored against West Ham should have been a warning for us not to switch off.

    Meireles didn't cost much, either. Kenny's got him playing well, too.

    Posted 1 year ago #

13. bman
    Member

    The Dippers have bought well this season. Suarez was a real goal machine in Holland, judging by the way he pissed all over us, he's going to make the step up to the PL very nicely.

    Posted 1 year ago #

14. sidney
    Member

    United 'close on Pastore'
    http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6800234,00.html

    The Premier League giants are thought to be close to agreeing a €40million (£34m), four-year deal for the 21-year-old Argentina international, regarded as a superstar of the future following a raft of dazzling Serie A displays.

    Not seen much of him to be honest. Is he any good?

    The article makes it clear that he will eventually fuck off Spain, but still, he sounds like an exciting, creative player

    Posted 1 year ago #

15. bman
    Member

    sidney said:
    United 'close on Pastore'
    http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6800234,00.html

    The Premier League giants are thought to be close to agreeing a €40million (£34m), four-year deal for the 21-year-old Argentina international, regarded as a superstar of the future following a raft of dazzling Serie A displays.

    Not seen much of him to be honest. Is he any good?

    The article makes it clear that he will eventually fuck off Spain, but still, he sounds like an exciting, creative player

    From what I've seen of him, he's ace, a legitimate contender to become one of the best in the world. There might be no player I'd be more excited to see us sign. But I'm not going to get excited yet, for reasons we all know.

    Posted 1 year ago #

16. bman
    Member

    I also don't know why we haven't bought Alexis Sanchez already. Since last summer he was openly begging to come to United, now his reputation has been growing all season, and we're going to be priced out of him. Could have gotten him for a decent price in the summer, maybe instead of fucking Bebe.

    Posted 1 year ago #

17. sidney
    Member

    Cool

    Just watched the obligatory Youtube videos, and he has a brain, and he's big, and quick, and can beat people

    But more importantly, his short passing and one touch play are apparently his best qualities. If that's the case then sign him up

    Posted 1 year ago #

18. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    bman said:
    I also don't know why we haven't bought Alexis Sanchez already. Since last summer he was openly begging to come to United, now his reputation has been growing all season, and we're going to be priced out of him. Could have gotten him for a decent price in the summer, maybe instead of fucking Bebe.

    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3276/serie-a/2011/03/07/2384082/udinese-president-giampaolo-pozzo-chelsea-were-interested-in

    Well that's him, too expensive for us then.

    Posted 1 year ago #

19. bman
    Member

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3276/serie-a/2011/03/07/2384082/udinese-president-giampaolo-pozzo-chelsea-were-interested-in

    Well that's him, too expensive for us then.

    Yep, I remember after the World Cup in the summer he was making loads of "United come get me" comments openly in the press. Specifically United, not other clubs. Still I look forward to seeing him banging in the goals in the PL next season, against us, for the Chavs.

    Posted 1 year ago #

20. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    Still, until our hopes and dreams are actually dashed... we can dream.

    Neuer, Sanchez, Pastore and Rodwell... that's not bad, is it?

    Posted 1 year ago #

21. bman
    Member

    Not bad at all. Only, I really haven't seen much of Rodwell -- is he all that? Does he look the real deal?

    Posted 1 year ago #

22. Calvino
    Member

    Of all these people you guys have mentioned who is a midfield enforcer terrier? Who? That is what we lack badly. If we do not buy Downing I can see Liverpool getting him to come and cross the ball for Carroll - simple formula really.

    Because their names sound exotic that is why you guys seem to be keen to have them right? And then you blame the manager for getting the likes of Bebe, obertan and co - well their names sounded exotic too.

    For me, that battler and Rodwell will do us nicely. Anything else is a bonus.

    Dear Sir Alex Ferguson, the 4-4-2 formation with two strikers and two central midfielders is DEAD. Please stop playing this. Thank you very much sir. Regards,
    A Loyal Fan.

    Posted 1 year ago #

23. brianofnazareth
    Member

    Should have made sure we got Arron Ramsey ffs

    The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.....

    Posted 1 year ago #

24. bman
    Member

    Calvino said:
    Of all these people you guys have mentioned who is a midfield enforcer terrier? Who? That is what we lack badly. If we do not buy Downing I can see Liverpool getting him to come and cross the ball for Carroll - simple formula really.

    Because their names sound exotic that is why you guys seem to be keen to have them right? And then you blame the manager for getting the likes of Bebe, obertan and co - well their names sounded exotic too.

    You've found me out, that's exactly why I like players. After all, it's impossible that I might have seen Neuer, Pastore, or Sanchez play and thought that they looked bloody good, since they're such complete unknowns. Nobody's heard of them at all. Are you sure you're not Alan Shearer in disguise?

    Posted 1 year ago #

25. Calvino
    Member

    Bman,
    please do not get me wrong. I am not casting aspersions on your assessment of these players. I am just asking if really these are the players we need given our current state. My take is that we need proper ball winners FIRST and Foremost in that team. We have enough invention upfront to make things happen. The problem is that there is no fight nor tenacity in our midfield.

    People seem to snort at players who are playing for other clubs and write such rubbish like "they are not United quality". We signed Keane from Forrest who were on their way to relegation. Ince from West Ham and two season after they went down. We got Valencia from Wigan and they might go down this season. Liverpool have just paid a fortune for Carroll and he will do the business in the PL for certain.

    I do not know how many on here can remember Lee Sharpe in his pomp and tell me how much different Downing is from him. Guess where we signed Sharpe from? Exactly. TORQUAY that's where. The money we wasted on Bebe and Diouf we could have used to buy Downing and we would not be suffering. We do not need another player to play in the hole so for me, a 'no' for Hamsik and all such. We have to rehabilitate Wayne Rooney in that position or alternate him with Nani there just as Young is doing now for Villa.

    Lassana Diarra and Lee Cattermole will work like dogs of war in our midfield and they can play too. Diarra will cope because he has played for Chelsea and Arsenal and Madrid so United will NOT faze him. cattermole will mature and play better because he will have the might of Manchester United behind him. Simple purchases really.

    Posted 1 year ago #

26. Dinkinflicker
    Member

    Cal - re Diarra, you could also argue that he's had only limited appearances at Chelsea, Arsenal and Real, whist being binned off after a year or two.

    Personally, I think Scott Parker would be a decent shout. That Tiote fella at Newcastle looks half decent too.

    For me, we should spunk whatever it takes to get Modric and Schweinsteiger. But we won't.

    Posted 1 year ago #

27. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    bman said:
    Not bad at all. Only, I really haven't seen much of Rodwell -- is he all that? Does he look the real deal?

    He's young and tenacious, and comfortable on the ball... part midfielder, part centre back... got the makings of a great defensive midfielder...

    Posted 1 year ago #

28. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    Cal... Cattermole and Diarra...??? Chelsea, Arsenal and Real had Diarra... and decided he wasn't good enough... why is he good enough for you?... and "IF" he was any good, surely he'd get games under Mourinho, who loves a midfield terrier.

    And Cattermole is NOT good enough... he's a midfield bully... and that's it...

    It just astounds me how you've reduced United to a team with such meager ambitions... you seem to have accepted that United is no longer in the market for the best players, and must now settle for others cast offs, and rejects.

    You also seem to have pinned our entire attack on Rooney and Nani... get in a couple of midfield "ball winners", and they give the ball to our forwards to "do their thing"... OK... you don't like Berbatov, you don't like Owen, you don't rate Obertan, Valencia plays Nanis position, Hernandez isn't a locked on starter,(yet), Scholes is too old, Giggs is too old, Welbeck and Macheda are still unproven... so... Rooney and Nani are it... our entire attack... you think that's good enough?

    Posted 1 year ago #

29. Alfonso Bedoya
    Moderator

    Dinkinflicker said:
    Cal - re Diarra, you could also argue that he's had only limited appearances at Chelsea, Arsenal and Real, whist being binned off after a year or two.

    Personally, I think Scott Parker would be a decent shout. That Tiote fella at Newcastle looks half decent too.

    For me, we should spunk whatever it takes to get Modric and Schweinsteiger. But we won't.

    Parker is 30... and he's as good as he's ever going to get.

    Posted 1 year ago #

30. Calvino
    Member

    Alf,
    it looks like your first instinct is to punch holes in whatever I post. Well that is your look out. I rate Obertan. I really think we should give him more games. I never rated Berbatov in the sense that he was not the right sort of player for us. NEVER did. NOTHING he has done since his arrival has convinced me otherwise. Owen is a waste of the money we pay him. Absolute waste.

    Scholes and Giggs are so very obviously too old. Nothing new there. Diarra starts games for Madrid. The difference is that madrid do have Khedira and Alonso. We have Scholes and Carrick!!! Is that a chasm of difference or what. The reason I have not suggested a striker or even an inside forward is that I do not see our manager admiting his error in the signing of Berbatov. He is way too stubborn and Phelan is too silly to suggest it.
    I sincerely believe that Cattermole will be fine for us. And Downing too. I always talk about the qualities of the players. Alf, do me a big favour: watch Sunderland when they play. Watch them with the eye of a scout. Do same for Villa.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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