Ferguson misses point as he hits out at fans and lauds Glazers

Sir Alex Ferguson has once again brought himself into conflict with supporters angry at the Glazer family’s ownership of Manchester United. The Scot, true to this line for more than five years, has defended the Americans while denying that the club’s financial problems have had any impact on the United’s transfer market strategy this summer.

Ferguson, whose sole nod towards protesting fans is to say that every supporter “has the right” to air their views, has consistently backed the Glazer family despite the club’s £716.5 million debt.

Instead, the legendary United manager has blamed a “lack of value” in the transfer market for United’s limited investment over the past two years. Since the club sold Cristiano Ronaldo to Real Madrid for £80 million, Ferguson has bought Antonio Valencia, Gabriel Obertan, Mame Biram Diouf, Javier Hernandez and Chris Smalling for a total investment of just under £40 million.

However, this expenditure falls well short of the Glazer family’s original business model.The Americans promised a net spend of £25 million per season following their 2005 acquisition but figures suggest that United’s activity is significantly below that level. Indeed, the club has invested £192.7 million but recouped £170.95 million over the past five years for a annualised net transfer spend of just £4.35 million.

Despite this fact Ferguson claims that the Glazer family has always supported him in the transfer market.

“They [the Glazers] have done their job well. They support myself and they’ve supported the players. I’ve never been refused when I’ve asked for money for a player,” said Ferguson yesterday.

“What can I do other than carry on the way we’re doing it, and the way I’m allowed to carry on? I’ve no complaints.”

Ferguson also believes that the Glazers remain blameless for United’s financial position, with a leveraged sale inevitable once the club had floated on the stock market in 1991.

“When Manchester United Football Club went PLC, without doubt it was always going to be bought. So it’s unfair that, because a particular family like the Glazers have bought the club, they should come under criticism when anybody could have bought it,” claimed Ferguson in Houston yesterday.

“The debt has come through the club being bought out by an owner. No matter which business is bought nowadays, it’s usually bought with debt. But because it’s a football club, it seems to attract a different type of negative reporting via the media or particularly some of our fans.”

It’s a claim that has almost no factual accuracy though, with PLC status no more a guarantee of inevitable sale than limited company status ensures a club will remain off the market. Indeed, had JP McManus and John Magnier refused to sell their 30 per cent stake in the club at £3 per share in May 2005 United would quite possibly remain a PLC today.

Moreover, the debt-free acquisitions of Chelsea, Manchester City and Aston Villa during recent season belies the claim that almost all buyouts are leveraged in some form. After all, had the Glazers actually been able to raise the price of the club themselves, the family would not have borrowed 100 per cent of the purchase price from the banks and hedge funds.

But Ferguson goes further in explaining his lack of activity in the market, claiming that fans do not want the club to spend large fees on acquiring new players, such as the top class midfielder the squad so desperately lacks.

“The enormous amounts of money that are paid, not just for the transfer fees, but for salaries; I don’t think it rests easy with supporters,”

“But we’re in such a competitive world that you’re hamstrung. Over the years, we’ve bought players for quite high amounts like Berbatov, Ferdinand, Veron and Rooney, but we try to equate how we’re going to get the proper value before we do it.”

It’s an odd statement from Ferguson, who risks being accused of hypocrisy having broken the British transfer record on no less than six occasions during his 23 year tenure at Old Trafford. Even at £27 million, few fans would argue that Rooney, for example, does not represent value. The Scouse striker almost single-handedly kept United in the Premier League title hunt last season.

This is the point Ferguson does not get – at Old Trafford value used to be a factor of success. Today it is about the absolute price.

Yet, it is almost impossible given the club’s heavy spending on debt interest, management fees and the Glazers’ dividends that Ferguson could buy the next Rooney, if the player’s cost is more than £10-15 million, let alone £30 million

Confirmation of this appears to come with United passing on the opportunity to buy the brilliant young Germany Mesut Özil. The player, who Ferguson tried to sign in 2008, surely represents the epitome of value in the market, costing just £12 million at 21 years of age.

Sharing is caring

Comments

  1. OP says

    What do we expect him to do? Come out and slag them off?

    They employ him and we are certainly better off with him in charge than anyone else.

    Also there is still a chance we might buy someone – but in all honesty paying a lot of money for someone does not guarantee success – I think it is a good idea to allow our emerging youngsters to take more responsibility otherwise why both with the youth system etc. Also we are United not a club that just chucks money at the first team, we bring players through who understand what it is all about.

    I would rather players like Fletcher and Brown who are loyal and won’t up sticks for a few extra quid. Who knows what will happen with Macheda, Hernandez, Welbeck etc. If we give them a chance they could be great, if not they will still make us some money as our youth players seem to have a premium on them.

  2. says

    I expect him to stop telling lies, that’s all. He’d do better just keeping his mouth shut. His comments are inaccurate and deliberately misleading.

    This – “we are United not a club that just chucks money at the first team, we bring players through who understand what it is all about.” is just wrong. Pallister, Keane, Veron, Ferdinand, Rooney, Berbatov…. all British record transfers. I don’t remember any of them playing in United’s youth team.

    Also I’d challenge this statement – “our youth players seem to have a premium on them.” since when, name an example?

  3. sheesh says

    I completely agree, Ed. Fergie could say nothing at all. He could not to get involved in the war between United fans and the Glazers. I hate the way he is occasionally contemptuous of the fans, as if he doesn’t understand why there is so much anti Glazer feeling.

    Speaking of people who are Glazer apologists, I really should stop reading Red Cafe. I can’t believe some of the drivel written there.

  4. manc says

    just what i expected from you ed,alex ferguson is a liar now,hahahaha,go support fc united,thats where you belong.

    • says

      @manc – Pretty much what Ferguson said when he told fans to “fuck off and support Chelsea” if they didn’t like the Glazers. I’ll support whomever I like and you don’t get to dictate that. Ferguson isn’t telling the truth, the whole truth and nothing but… and if you don’t like me saying it too bad.

  5. pjch says

    Interesting. Now pardon my maths but we have just sold 2 players for well over a combined sum of over £10M and we have the chance to buy Ozil for nearly £15M – give and take a couple of million then Ozil has got to be a bargin in SAFs world of no value in the market. Take his wages and the savings on these sales then it looks even better.
    Every site I’ve been on people have urged SAF to sign Ozil, a player that SAF has monitored for seasons and now has a chance to sign up. Hes got to better than some we have got for midfield. If he doesn’t he will be snapped up by one of our rivals – Premiership or La Liga. What a statement to everyone if Ozil is signed and shows that in the words of Gill ‘ There is money to spend’

  6. bruce thomas says

    I think this piece is absolutely spot on, Ed. I’m staying over here now; I’m sick of the shit I get from those deluded twonks over at R o M when I point out what’s actually going on.

  7. Retort says

    ED-Maybe it is you and a few fans who are out of step with the club. You say Sir Alex has lied to you, well what proof do you have? I would suggest none what so ever. Spending money on players like Rio, Keane, Rooney and others has hardly turn out bad for us but now Sir Alex sees no value in players on offer so decides to hold off. What is wrong with that? Can you imagine if we had paid 24 million for a player with a weekly salary of 220k a week that is just irresponsible. Maybe you want Mario Barwuah Balotelli at 45 million. Milner at 30 million GREAT value those are. I know for certain that if I have to place my faith in a manager like Sir Alex or fans who think the only way to win is to buy and buy big then I am with Sir Alex all the way.

    • says

      @ Retort – No but Ozil at 12m, Sneijder at 12.4m were great value examples. Hernandez at 7m might turn out to be too. Nobody ever said City’s spending is rational, and I’ve not tried to justify it.

      There is in fact value everywhere though – Ferguson is just using excuses for the fact his transfer activity is being limited by the club’s current business model. Why do I know this – because the Glazer family helpfully outlined exactly where all United’s money is going in their bond document. Look I understand why United fans might be in denial, I get called all sorts of names because I tell the truth, but there’s some massive revisionism going on at this club. More importantly I do know how to read a set of accounts and I do know that United’s sudden austerity isn’t because we’ve suddenly gained some kind of moral centre that says its wrong to pay footballers millions when for years United has been one of the biggest payers and spenders in Europe. Both the fans and the club has benefited from that.

      • wakey says

        Its easy in hindsight to bring up Sneijder but when most clubs were doing their shopping he wasn’t available for £12mill. He became available for 12mill because Real scared other bidders off with the value of a player who had hardly set Spain alight. It wasn’t just United who failed to pick him up and even Inter only made a move at the end of the window when real were desperate and Inter were able to justify the risk at that price and that risk turned into a bargain.

        We also don’t know Ozil is available for 12mill. I think he could be at the end of august but atm I cant help but feel its either paper talk OR Werder have leaked it to get the bids that have failed to come in to start and push the fee up.

        And even if he is, value isn’t just the fee. Veron was value when we signed him and SAF thought he would fit in united perfectly but he didn’t so ended up not being value. SAF has to try and predict this aspect of value and there may be a great player for a decent fee available but if the thinking is he wouldn’t work at United then it removes value. If SAF passes on Ozil its because he doesn’t feel he is right not because of money

  8. cantilever_moaner says

    I really cannot understand where Fergie is coming from these days. Does he really agree with the Glazers, as you quoted Ed he has broken the British transfer record on six occasions, surely if he doesn’t agree with the Glazers then he should just keep quiet !

    Is he trying to protect his position from a financial point of view? Or is he trying to ensure the club he re-generated doesn’t disintegrate into chaos ?

    I think he certainly loves pound note as he proved over that friggin’ horse

  9. Retort says

    ED- Just to clarify you say “Moreover, the debt-free acquisitions of Chelsea, Manchester City” You are just having us on are you not? Roman channeled funds to Chelsea Limited who then made a loan to Chelsea football club. Prior to this summers spending Roman was owed £726m secured on club assets via Chelsea Limited. PLEASE stop talking complete rubbish about Chelsea been debt free. Manchester City is in the same boat however we do not know the amounts until they file accounts but I guess their debt is in the region of £700 million. Why is it that so many Manchester United fans are so bloody naive and think these multi-millionaires just give money away.

    • says

      @ Retort – Each debt at City/Chelsea has been/is in the process of being written off in a debt/equity swap. My comments aren’t naive, they’re just correct. Even if they hadn’t been written off the interest-free loans that Abramovich/Abu Dhabi initially made, with no repayment period, was in practice the same thing. Neither Chelsea nor City were required to make a single penny repayment. Somewhat ironically it’s pretty much what United has done for the Glazers – leant them money without there being a repayment clause or any interest liable.

    • Bred Red says

      Good comments Retort.

      Nobody with money ever gives it away. The clubs bought that you mention, Chelsea and Manchester City. are in fact owned by the purchasers of same.

      It cannot be denied by anyone that when the time comes to sell any team the ‘owners’ will want massive profits to go with funds already pulled out of the clubs.

      Man United are apparentley more transparent with their accounting and debts because the fans demand open accounting. What cannot be denied however is the fact Man United were debt free when bought by the yanks.

      I believe if fans demanded the truth about clubs debts there would be mass suicides at Stamford Bridge & Eastlands. Also let us not forget the debts owned by Arsenal and Liverpool, how much really?

      Poor Pompie into receivership due to their purchasers being too greedy and I see this as a possible path for the team I initially supported and have followed as a fan for 60 years being forced into, with so many Glazer family members dipping their sticky fingers into the United Pot of Gold.

      Fergie is following the party line, in this case the almighty pound, but in doing so I ask has he let the real Man United fail, no he has not, he was & still is the premier team manager in the Premier League.

      Bred (Salford) Red

  10. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    cantilever_moaner <a href=

    Is he trying to protect his position from a financial point of view? Or is he trying to ensure the club he re-generated doesn’t disintegrate into chaos ?

    he don’t need the money, so i’m hoping the latter….makes sense

    fergis isn’t stupid

  11. says

    captainhormone said:
    he don’t need the money, so i’m hoping the latter….makes sense

    fergis isn’t stupid

    I was just about to say the same thing.

  12. cantilever_moaner says

    Unregistered User said:
    ED-Maybe it is you and a few fans who are out of step with the club. You say Sir Alex has lied to you, well what proof do you have? I would suggest none what so ever. Spending money on players like Rio, Keane, Rooney and others has hardly turn out bad for us but now Sir Alex sees no value in players on offer so decides to hold off. What is wrong with that? Can you imagine if we had paid 24 million for a player with a weekly salary of 220k a week that is just irresponsible. Maybe you want Mario Barwuah Balotelli at 45 million. Milner at 30 million GREAT value those are. I know for certain that if I have to place my faith in a manager like Sir Alex or fans who think the only way to win is to buy and buy big then I am with Sir Alex all the way.

    Give over man! Even in the “dark days” of the PLC Fergie would have added quality players to the squad. remember Veron was added (albeit wrongly ?) when we the top team in England by a mile !

  13. Retort says

    ED- How can Roman or the boys from Abu Dhabi do an equity swap they already own 100% of the equity. They are not writing anything off in fact the debt in the case of Chelsea has increased not decreased and unless you know Roman personally you cannot say he will write it off, as of now it is there same for City. Chelsea does not have to pay interest on the money but they have to repay the capital. City, no one knows, not even you, and we are waiting as are the footballing authorities.

    • says

      @retort – Once again you’re just plain wrong, wrong and then a bit more wrong. Neither Chelsea nor City will pay a penny back in capital and if you don’t know how a debt/equity swap works I suggest you go and do some reading, then return when you’ve got something of value to say and try not to pretend you actually know anything until then.

      Chelsea – http://blogs.forbes.com/sportsmoney/2009/12/abramovich-converts-chelsea-debt-to-equity/
      City – http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aANPMMStyRe4

      • wakey says

        I think you are the one who doesn’t understand debt for equity swaps. The equity a party takes for writing off debt is newly issued preferential shares. Preferential shares unlike normal shares have a set return amount each year which is a set monetary amount thats paid first and isn’t reliant on profits. If they make 100mill profit or a 100mill loss it pays the same.

        And at the end of the day these shares have to at some point be paid off in full and there may even be a compulsory buyback clause that Roman can trigger if he wants his money back

  14. Retort says

    cantilever_moaner- Name says it all-whine,whine whine… I am sure Berbatov, Nani, CR7 the one at Real now, is there any other, Smalling, Valencia, Hargreaves, Evra, Hernández Vidic, Anderson, Rafael and Fabio will all be happy to hear you think they are not class. Oh this is the club that has not spent any money since the Glazers took over. You seem to know less then bugger all about the club.

  15. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    tbf, out of those names you mentioned, only ronaldo, vidic and evra are proven class in our shirt

  16. cantilever_moaner says

    captainhormone said:
    tbf, out of those names you mentioned, only ronaldo, vidic and evra are proven class in our shirt

    Indeed and Ronaldo was unproven when bought and virtually everyone -fanzines, fans, forums etc slagged Fergie off for buying Vidic and Evra.

    As for knowing sweet FA about United, I saw Law and Charlton play in the flesh (Bestie was on a bender somewhere) did you ?

    • says

      I’d listen to a sensible argument from somebody who understood what they’re talking about even if they loved Glazer like their own child. Unfortunately, and I say this with no pleasure, its defending the indefensible.

      • Hasan says

        The thing is, you just aren’t willing to listen to an argument.

        You site Roman of Chelsea and the sheikh of City; so would you rather have United become a Russian puppet or a Saudi toy?!? The Glazers have let the club be, made it better in ways in fact. The club isn’t run on anyones whims or fancies. Yet you continue with your one dimensional headless rant. I thank god (or whoever else it is to thank) that United has not been bought by a meddling tycoon. It would have been worse. If you’re the one of those who would swap the city/chelsea money for the position we are in now just say it in plain English, don’t barb it in the name of Glazers’ plans or camouflage it with the love for the club.

        The 716.5m debt figure isn’t accurate. You know it. So stop lying.

        Also, it is fast becoming increasingly evident who is actually deluded, and most of us aren’t. We know large amount of debt isn’t ideal. We know the Glazers are here only for the money, they never pretended otherwise (maybe they are here even for the long run). We wish there was less interest to pay and maybe that they weren’t even here. We also know that the manager isn’t lying. That he has no need to. His position is more secure than the Glazers to think of it. We know that the future could get worse, but equally that it could get better.

        First it was your almost election campaign like support for MUST and the Red Knights, thankfully it has taken a back seat. Then your anti Glazer crusade that would have almost crippled the club, from the empty seat for the tie against Milan to boycotting the season ticket and merchandise and like. Then you turned on against those who didn’t believe your doom and gloom stories. And now even the manager- Alex Ferguson; Sir Alex Ferguson!! Mr. Know-it-all you seriously need some counselling. Stop basing everything on the facts you know, or more accurately on those that you think you do. The future isn’t certain, either which way. You, Andersred etc etc need to realize that there is more to the world and its functioning than the debit and credit sides of the balance sheet. You seem more obsessed with the finances than the Glazers do, I’m surprised how oblivious you are to everything else around you.

        • says

          @ Hasan – Who said anything about “rather having United become as Russian puppet” – come on now, if you want to have a debate don’t cheapen it by putting words into my mouth. It’s clear that you have nothing to offer in the way of an alternative analysis so you resort to accusations. Just typical of Glazer apologists everywhere.

          As for the accusation that I am lying about the debt explain what £504m bond debt plus around £220 (ish) m PIK debt is then? Yeah probably more than £716.5m now, you’re right massive lie. And please don’t give me any crap about it not being United’s responsibility because only the terminally naive can argue the money to pay that debt won’t come from United’s bank account.

  17. says

    Unregistered User said:
    another shit stirring anti fergie blog from this silly site!

    Then why stay and read it, if you have a point to make to prove that Ed is wrong and anti Fergie then prove it with discussion not stupid comments.

  18. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    Unregistered User said:
    another shit stirring anti fergie blog from this silly site!

    another pro glazer, naive, clueless plastic, spouting shite on a united forum for proper united fans

    priceless

  19. bruce thomas says

    Fergie has come out in defence of the Glazers because he is fundamentally complicit in their ownership. There was a time when he could have refused to work with the Glazers (at the time Gill was also briefing against them) and the banks would not have lent the Glazers the money.

    We have to remind ourselves how the club came onto the market in the first place. The previous majority shareholders gave SAF a share in a racehorse, Rock of Gibraltar. Rather than accept the consdierable winnings that this horse generated for him, SAF quite literally looked this gift horse in the mouth and said that, if he had a share in it, then that included stud fees too. He even sued over it — and lost. The ill-feeling created caused the Magnier and Mc Manus to sell up — and they were not too bothered who they sold to. So it’s not too big a leap of reasoning to say we are now suffering under the Glazers’ ownership because of a row over a test-tube of horse spunk.

    It’s often said then in SAF we trust. (Although they said that about the Fat Spanish Waiter, too). TBH it’s getting harder and harder to trust anything SAF says anymore. We simply don’t know if he has any money available till he proves it. And despite the good result against a poor MLS team recently we still need three quality players — most of us know where and why. (For me they would be Ozil, Benzema and Akinfeev).

    Unfortunately SAF is compounding the damage he caused with his pig-headedness over the racehorse by now openly backing the Glazers and dissing loyal and committed supporters . I have no time (or money) for the Glazers. I will be going to away games only and not buying any merchandise. It’s getting harder and harder to simply enjoy the football with all this shit hanging over it.

    At the end of the day the Gimps know that our love of United is greater than our hatred of them.

    AON = Americans Out Now

  20. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    Unregistered User said:
    Fergie has come out in defence of the Glazers because he is fundamentally complicit in their ownership. There was a time when he could have refused to work with the Glazers (at the time Gill was also briefing against them) and the banks would not have lent the Glazers the money.

    We have to remind ourselves how the club came onto the market in the first place. The previous majority shareholders gave SAF a share in a racehorse, Rock of Gibraltar. Rather than accept the consdierable winnings that this horse generated for him, SAF quite literally looked this gift horse in the mouth and said that, if he had a share in it, then that included stud fees too. He even sued over it — and lost. The ill-feeling created caused the Magnier and Mc Manus to sell up — and they were not too bothered who they sold to. So it’s not too big a leap of reasoning to say we are now suffering under the Glazers’ ownership because of a row over a test-tube of horse spunk.

    It’s often said then in SAF we trust. (Although they said that about the Fat Spanish Waiter, too). TBH it’s getting harder and harder to trust anything SAF says anymore. We simply don’t know if he has any money available till he proves it. And despite the good result against a poor MLS team recently we still need three quality players — most of us know where and why. (For me they would be Ozil, Benzema and Akinfeev).

    Unfortunately SAF is compounding the damage he caused with his pig-headedness over the racehorse by now openly backing the Glazers and dissing loyal and committed supporters . I have no time (or money) for the Glazers. I will be going to away games only and not buying any merchandise. It’s getting harder and harder to simply enjoy the football with all this shit hanging over it.

    At the end of the day the Gimps know that our love of United is greater than our hatred of them.

    AON = Americans Out Now

    TBF, that’s a cracking post, even though i don’t agree with all of it….but very good indeed……..your observation re the horse is an often missed out fact, but i don’t believe horse spunk was the sole reason for the Glazers taking hold…but it certainly contributed……

  21. cantilever_moaner says

    cantilever_moaner said:
    Is he trying to protect his position from a financial point of view? Or is he trying to ensure the club he re-generated doesn’t disintegrate into chaos ?

    I think he certainly loves a pound note as he proved over that friggin’ horse

    That was the point I was trying to make, he may not need the money but he loves money, hence the ludicrous fight with the Irish over a fucking horse ! Don’t forget they made him back down with their 99 questions !!

  22. says

    In defence of Ed I fail to see any agenda other than a genuine dislike for how the club he supports is being run. It appears to me that it is not anti-Glazer for the sake of it but rather an intelligent critique of the financial mess the owners have made of Manchester United.

    Regarding SAF’s comments I just cannot see the point in them. By defending the Glazers he simultaneously derides the heartfelt concerns of those who oppose them. What good does it do anyone to have the manager wade into minefield?

    The running defence is that there is money to spend. With ageing players to be replaced, along with long term injured ones and with a lack of quality in certain areas it is hard to argue against signing new players. I don’t think anyone but the most zealous supporter buys into the ‘lack of value’ theory. Until the necessary squad improvements are made, it can only point to a severe lack of money, pure and simple.

  23. Alfonso BedoyaAlfonso Bedoya says

    Unregistered User said:
    @ Liam

    Spot On — God, I’ve found an oasis of sanity here at United rants.

    Welcome to the “dark side”.

  24. ronatkinson says

    how many premier leagues/ european cups did we win before SAF took over? I lived thru that barren 70s-80s era its not fun you know. We were supposed to be a “top club’ but no titles to shout about;more like what City is today.C’mon guys lets be united in our support for our club & SAF.

  25. ja says

    A couple of minor points.
    Claims that the banks wouldnt lend the Glazers the money if Fergie had come out against them.
    The Glazers business plan was so dodgy and debt laden that the banks already had cold feet which meant the Glazers had to go to PIK route with ruinous interest rates. {Whoops sorry the PIKs are nothing to do with United.} Doubt these hedge funds would have cared less if Fergie had walked, it was a win/win for them.
    Secondly test tube race horse breeding is illegal for obvious reasons.

  26. simpson says

    Hey

    Ed i love ur article .another spot on article some supporter does not want to understand what’s happening at the club. they happy if club go down n get in to more trouble.i am not saying we will go in to administrator but if glazers remain 2 more years then this kind of there will be possibility that we will be in big trouble. and that time only fans or some one want to burn their 2 or 3 billion pound. only that can put club out of debt and from bonds. i m worrying b’coz our financial future does not look good.

    best of luck to Manchester united i don’t want we have to see this kind of thing.

    • wakey says

      As I mentioned before with debt for equity new shares are usually issued which dilute the shareholding of the existing shareholders. These shares are also usually preferential shares which means that the dividend isn’t based on profits like normal shares but are paid out a set figure every year no matter if it turned a profit or loss

  27. cantilever_moaner says

    Unregistered User said:
    …… he was & still is the premier team manager in the Premier League.

    Bred (Salford) Red

    No question about that, shame he has sold his sour (not to mention his Socialist) for money

  28. RedAlert260599 says

    Ed, spot on piece. If Fergie wasn’t getting paid millions he wouldn’t be here. It’s us supporters who’ll be here when the shit hits the fan. Fergie will be off to his plush retirement home to count his money. Who does he think he’s kidding with these comments defending the Glazers? Obviously a few people on this site have fell for it though. And they’re the same ones who’ll go running for another successful team as soon as we hit the inevitable trouble with our finances and the team is dismantled. Fergie is a liar. He’s a great manager, but the plain fact is he tells porkies. Tommy Doc the second!

  29. RedAlert260599 says

    Sheesh, I feel I have to defend my honour from a previous post. You reckon I’ve never been to games? “I don’t know what it is to have an emotional connection to the club”? I reckon I can trump your hand anytime you want mate.

  30. Payney says

    Ed – You are absolutely on the ball with the piece & subsequent retorts. I have a lot of respect for Fergie but just don’t get where he is coming from with his pro-Glazer stance especially considering his socialist \ trade union roots. I have met him on quite a number of occassions & he is very different to his media persona – he’s a very down to earth & personable character.Maybe when you are that close to it all you don’t see the woods for the trees. Maybe deep down he knows its not right but just can’t give up the job he loves so complicitly goes with it. Maybe we’ll find out one day when he retires. Maybe not. I wish he would just keep out of it but I guess he gets asked all the time off the media so its difficult. For me his greatest acheivement would be if he came out against the Glazers & provided a head figure for a MUST \ IMUSA campaign to take the club into supporter ownwership. He could bankrupt the Glazers into selling at a knock down price in a heartbeat and leave us with a beautiful legacy for generations. In the meantime I’ll happily give my money to “that mob” FC United and not a penny to subsidise Uncle Malcomns failing American shopping malls.

  31. wakey says

    @Ed

    Seriously you need to learn about what you are writing. They DIDN’T need McManus and Magniers stake to start the takeover. Their stakeholding was already just below M&N’s and there were plenty of others who could have sold their shares.

    And M&M were actvitly pimping their share out after not getting their way with the board over SAF. Anyone BUT a new shareholder was going to have to launch a takeover to buy their share.

    And you say a takeover wasn’t inevitable, they are under PLC’s. You will always find someone sniffing around a public company thats doing well, just look at the Sky bid. This is expecially the case when the shareholders of the copmpany have openly raised issues about the way the board are running the company that reduce its bottom line. If a PlC has a share price thats deemed low and there are serious errors being made in exploiting revenue streams and another party sees this then its going to get taken over.

    As for the so called debt-free acquistions of Chelsea, City and Villa. You are having a joke with that comment right? Not a single one of those clubs mentioned were bought with the owners own money, they were bought with loans from their other business interests and with them they came with open term preferential share issues with a guarenteed dividend payment each year no matter what the profit figure is

    And people keep bringing up transfer fees paid in the past in argument against the value claim. If any of you can tell me any of theses players that are being talked about at 25mill plus is in the same band as those we have paid transfer records or 25m+ on then you are deluded. Most of those signed for big money have been the top of their game (Veron), on the edge of being a top world class player (Rio) or a future star (Rooney). Of the big money buys Berba is perhaps the only one who thats stands out as not being value at the time is Berba where a combination of a Fan site, the media and spurs saw the club pay in excess of 6mill over where they wanted (Its United so you expect to overpay but this was excessive due to outside factors and no doubt has seen everyone be more careful about not overpaying)

  32. says

    Just beacuse fans rate a certain player and other clubs go in for them or buy them, does not mean that Fergie rates them or wants them.
    Some fans wouls imply see us signing anyone for signings sake.
    What you need is players who are suited to United, to the style of play and have the right attitude.
    The current market has been inflated by Man City and their silly spending, not just on players but on players wages. This was the cas elast summer, with Real Madrid adding to that inflated market.
    Fergie has made offers on both Benzema and David Villa over the last 2 summers, yet you cant blame him for the players desire to go to real and Barca respectively.

    As for the comments on the Glazers, read the actual comments that Fergie made and the context they were said in, rather than going off a sensationalist headline from The Sun.

    With regards to the Glazers borrowing, they didnt borrow the 100% fudning to buy Utd as the article above says, they pumped in approx £250million of their own funds.

    Have you actually looked at the acquisitions of Chelsae, City and Villa? Chelsea currently have a debt of £700 million which is payable to the owner. Villa have a debt of over £100 million and have seen ticket prices almost double in cost and very little spending on players. Randy Learner pulled a same PR stunt arrival as we seen from Hicks and Gillete, with a lot of Villa fans very disgruntled about events at the club.
    Both Chelsea and City needed to pay silly money in order to launch themselves and set up a level where they can compete. United have never needed to do that, simply topping up the existing squad with one big player here or there.
    The time to judge the transfers is not now, not at the end of the window in September, but at the end of Januarys window.

    How many people mentioned Ozil or Snidjer before the World Cup? Infact, the signing of Hernandez was slagged off before his World Cup goals, with people saying he was a PR signing to sell shirts in Mexico etc, slating United for not signing a big name.
    A good wold cup leads to false value. look at the signings after Euro 96, Poborsky and Cruyf who had great tournaments, yet couldnt live up to the standard at United week in and week out.

    Take away City and last year Madrid and you will see very few big signings accross World Football. Whilst its easy to say we didnt spend the Ronaldo money, I didnt see Milan splashing the Kaka cash.

    Its time people stopped obsessing about the finances, stopped slaging off Fergie and concentrated on supporting the team. We have more bitters now who supposedly support United, than Ive ever seen from the likes of City.

  33. Alfonso BedoyaAlfonso Bedoya says

    All you tossers arguing about “financing”, and “debt equity”…

    Fuckl off!

    Who do you think you are, and who do you think you’re talking to?

    99% of United fans don’t understand, and more imortantly, don’t give a shit.

    You lot are just taking a big, self important, “intellectual” shit on the fundamental issue… The vast majority of United fans DON’T WANT THE GLAZERS OWNING MANCHESTER UNITED!

    PERIOD!

    They DON’T really care what the Glazers financial plan is, because they DO know the only things that really matter!… The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Too many of you are just having a great wank… how impressive your knowledge of all things business… good for you… I hope it makes you lots of money… and then gives you stress related, bleeding hemorrhoids.

    Why not open your own little discussion on facebook or summat… and you can talk pounds and pence, and all things finance, while you twiddle your pathetic little peckers, and flip through philatelic magazines.

    Bah!

    It’s cunts just like you that own United.

    • Wakey says

      @Alfonso Bedoya

      Football and sport in genral can’t exist in its own little micro ecosystem. It would be great if it could but its just not realistic and becomes even less realistic the further up the ladder you get. The minute a single penny is involved in a sport it becomes a business and when it becomes a business the financial aspects that you are dismissing come into play

      Now if you really don’t want to discuss financial aspects and don’t want to or are unable to understand them then that’s fine but the scope that you can put any opinion over has to be restricted to aspects that have NOTHING financial related to them. So basically you have one opinion you can have as an someone in the Anti Glazer camp and that’s “I don’t like them because they aren’t united fans”. Certainly you can’t go around calling them parasites like you did because that’s a financial opinion.

      If you want to bring anything with any financial element into your reason for wanting the Glazers out then you have to take an interest in finacnces and have to try and understand the whole picture and not just the MUST spun numbers that ignore many factors (As MUST and Andy Green like to apply Tabloid techniques of skewing facts knowing most will take them as fact without question)

      Perhaps if those who did want to discuss the Glazers either stuck with elements that are not finanical in anyway and those who did want to made sure they did their reading and had an open mind then being a United fan might be more enjoyable than it is atm with the division as the masses commenting would have more knowledge and the claims wouldn’t be so extreame

  34. cantilever_moaner says

    Alfonso Bedoya said:

    … The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Great post,spot on. It’s not the lack of big signings that irks me as paying big money for the sake of it has never been United’s style – in fact I’d love United to be successfuly with a combination of quality players and kids from the youth team.
    It’s the fact that the club has gone from profit to debt due to the greed of the Glazers who see United as a money making machine

  35. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    All you tossers arguing about “financing”, and “debt equity”…

    Fuckl off!

    Who do you think you are, and who do you think you’re talking to?

    99% of United fans don’t understand, and more importantly, don’t give a shit.

    You lot are just taking a big, self important, “intellectual” shit on the fundamental issue… The vast majority of United fans DON’T WANT THE GLAZERS OWNING MANCHESTER UNITED!

    PERIOD!

    They DON’T really care what the Glazers financial plan is, because they DO know the only things that really matter!… The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Too many of you are just having a great wank… how impressive your knowledge of all things business… good for you… I hope it makes you lots of money… and then gives you stress related, bleeding hemorrhoids.

    Why not open your own little discussion on facebook or summat… and you can talk pounds and pence, and all things finance, while you twiddle your pathetic little peckers, and flip through philatelic magazines.

    Bah!

    It’s cunts just like you that own United.

    lol…..i was just about to type something similar alf, but you beat me to it…..anyway, you put it better than i could

    and as for the pathetic comment made re milan and kaka….wum material that at it’s best….ffs milan sold kaka as they are in serious shit…

    knobs

  36. Real Red says

    Alfonso questions the merits of “arguing about financing”
    and points out “The Glazers are NOT football fans”.

    Therein lies the crux of the whole debate.

    Those who are really into finance do not know or understand football and vice-versa.
    In Math Set Theory the two are mutually exclusive. Period.

    I have never come across any greedy financial tyke who owns a footie club and really understands what it is all about to the fan.
    If he/she had spent their time wrapped in the game like many of us from youth, he/she would never have been able to devote their full attention to making money.
    That’s what drives that sort of person.
    The mindset is completely orthogonal.

    Red Knights, you may say.
    Mr Drasdo, even.
    I say, Don’t make me laugh.
    No different to the Glazers.
    It’s all propaganda.
    All of ‘em.

    They all only want to own the club for their own ends.

  37. Pikey McScumPikey McScum says

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    All you tossers arguing about “financing”, and “debt equity”…

    Fuckl off!

    Who do you think you are, and who do you think you’re talking to?

    99% of United fans don’t understand, and more importantly, don’t give a shit.

    You lot are just taking a big, self important, “intellectual” shit on the fundamental issue… The vast majority of United fans DON’T WANT THE GLAZERS OWNING MANCHESTER UNITED!

    PERIOD!

    They DON’T really care what the Glazers financial plan is, because they DO know the only things that really matter!… The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Too many of you are just having a great wank… how impressive your knowledge of all things business… good for you… I hope it makes you lots of money… and then gives you stress related, bleeding hemorrhoids.

    Why not open your own little discussion on facebook or summat… and you can talk pounds and pence, and all things finance, while you twiddle your pathetic little peckers, and flip through philatelic magazines.

    Bah!

    It’s cunts just like you that own United.

    I love you Alf

  38. diggs says

    Gents,

    I will not pretend to know everything about the finances at the club. However, one trhing I do know after 20+ years of ferguson is that he ALWAYS does EVERYTHING for the good of the club. If he is lying (and none of us can seriously acuse him without actual facts, which we dont have regardles of how many papers/accounts/stories we’ve read) then he is lying FOR THE GOOD OF THE CLUB! when have you ever known anything different from Fergie? Things are a lot more complicated than we will ever know. the signing of Ozil for example… you’re all talking like its done and we’re not even bothering. there are WEEKS left of the window and Werder are not just going to sell to the first to come along with a reasonable offer. Why do you think there’s so much activity on the last day of the window when all clubs have had all summer to concude business? They will only sell when they HAVE to and not before. If we show our hand now it could all go tits up because SMART negotiating is not handled like that.
    Basically, you all need to grow up a bit. Wingeing that fergie “is lying to us” is quite pathetic. we support the team, we support the players, WE SUPPORT THE MANAGER. After everything he has done and the countless times he has proved us wrong he deserves a lot more from you lot than this. ever heard of benefit of the doubt?? and there is plenty of doubt so dont come back with this ridiculous suggestion that any one of you is trully and actually aware of ALL the facts – you’re not.

    we are supporters, how about we SUPPORT??!

    • Liam says

      Good post pal. Say what you want about SAF but he’s united to the core and even if he is fibbing like you said he’ll be doing it for a reason. People should stop doubting the man. This very sight was calling for his head a few years ago over a couple of dodgy seasons and signings, yet here we are 3 league titles and a CL title later. But wait a minute we didn’t win the big trophys last season so the Fergie bashing starts again. How many times do somepeople feel the need to be made a cock out of. Trust the man!!

  39. Dave Mack says

    Your comment that “Ferguson doesn’t get” the relationship between value and success at OT is without doubt the single most ignorant thing I’ve ever read about United on any site.
    Eveything Fergie has done over the last 25 years and continues to do is about sustainable year in year out success while building huge value. (Forbes confrm that today MUFC are the most valuable sprting club in the world.)
    Pretnding your a United supporter is an embarrsement to all of us who really are.

    • says

      @ Dave Mack – not sure who that’s aimed at but I’m pretty sick of ‘fans’ like you thinking you have the right to determine other supporters opinions. You don’t. If you don’t like the opinions here you’re welcome to offer an alternative viewpoint but name calling only cheapens your point.

  40. sheesh says

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    All you tossers arguing about “financing”, and “debt equity”…

    Fuckl off!

    Who do you think you are, and who do you think you’re talking to?

    99% of United fans don’t understand, and more importantly, don’t give a shit.

    You lot are just taking a big, self important, “intellectual” shit on the fundamental issue… The vast majority of United fans DON’T WANT THE GLAZERS OWNING MANCHESTER UNITED!

    PERIOD!

    They DON’T really care what the Glazers financial plan is, because they DO know the only things that really matter!… The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Too many of you are just having a great wank… how impressive your knowledge of all things business… good for you… I hope it makes you lots of money… and then gives you stress related, bleeding hemorrhoids.

    Why not open your own little discussion on facebook or summat… and you can talk pounds and pence, and all things finance, while you twiddle your pathetic little peckers, and flip through philatelic magazines.

    Bah!

    It’s cunts just like you that own United.

    Well said.

  41. says

    United might be the most ‘valuable’ sporting club in the world but they don’t have any money due to debt repayments. Thus, no funds to make the necessary squad improvements.

  42. says

    Alfonso Bedoya said:
    All you tossers arguing about “financing”, and “debt equity”…

    Fuckl off!

    Who do you think you are, and who do you think you’re talking to?

    99% of United fans don’t understand, and more importantly, don’t give a shit.

    You lot are just taking a big, self important, “intellectual” shit on the fundamental issue… The vast majority of United fans DON’T WANT THE GLAZERS OWNING MANCHESTER UNITED!

    PERIOD!

    They DON’T really care what the Glazers financial plan is, because they DO know the only things that really matter!… The Glazers are NOT football fans!… They’re NOT really even Manchester United fans!… They’re just malignant parasites that recognise that there’s a lot of money to be made from this club… and the fans!

    That’s more than enough to loathe them for.

    Too many of you are just having a great wank… how impressive your knowledge of all things business… good for you… I hope it makes you lots of money… and then gives you stress related, bleeding hemorrhoids.

    Why not open your own little discussion on facebook or summat… and you can talk pounds and pence, and all things finance, while you twiddle your pathetic little peckers, and flip through philatelic magazines.

    Bah!

    It’s cunts just like you that own United.

    Fuck me Alfie we often don’t see eye to eye but that was a classic brought a big smile to my face.

  43. sheesh says

    Unregistered User said:
    @Alfonso Bedoya

    Football and sport in genral can’t exist in its own little micro ecosystem. It would be great if it could but its just not realistic and becomes even less realistic the further up the ladder you get. The minute a single penny is involved in a sport it becomes a business and when it becomes a business the financial aspects that you are dismissing come into play

    Now if you really don’t want to discuss financial aspects and don’t want to or are unable to understand them then that’s fine but the scope that you can put any opinion over has to be restricted to aspects that have NOTHING financial related to them. So basically you have one opinion you can have as an someone in the Anti Glazer camp and that’s “I don’t like them because they aren’t united fans”. Certainly you can’t go around calling them parasites like you did because that’s a financial opinion.

    If you want to bring anything with any financial element into your reason for wanting the Glazers out then you have to take an interest in finacnces and have to try and understand the whole picture and not just the MUST spun numbers that ignore many factors (As MUST and Andy Green like to apply Tabloid techniques of skewing facts knowing most will take them as fact without question)

    Perhaps if those who did want to discuss the Glazers either stuck with elements that are not finanical in anyway and those who did want to made sure they did their reading and had an open mind then being a United fan might be more enjoyable than it is atm with the division as the masses commenting would have more knowledge and the claims wouldn’t be so extreame

    Never ever forget that the fans made the club the business it is today.

    It’s a reality of life that, whoever was taking over the club was, in the eyes of the
    fans at least, going to have to justify that they have the fans’ and the club’s best interests at heart. Without the fans, you can forget about business. If no fans are going to games, buying the shirts (because we dislike the owners) or whatever shit the apologists may masturbate every night over, there is no business. 4000 season tickets being placed on general sale is an example of what happens when you mess with the fans and treat them with disdain and contempt.

    Fans measure whether their and the club’s ‘best interests’ are being met by how ownership affects matters on the field (our ability to sign players for example, results). That is true, so there is a financial aspect there.

    At the time of the takeover, fans also, quite rightly, questioned ‘what’s in it for the owner?’ – which is a subjective question (not a financial one) that we have been asking since these American scum bags took over. Facts are that the Glazers are businessmen, not United fans, so we have every right to ask this question. When you ask this very simple question, Finance doesn’t even come it. Nothing that has taken place under the Glazers’ stewardship has allayed fears that they are only looking out for themselves.

    I completely agree with Alf in that what fucks me off is that Glazer apologists (all of whom come across as smug, pretentious wankers) spend too much time debating the club’s ability to manage the debt when they lose sight of why United fans questioned the takeover in the first place and why they still do. We don’t want the Glazers at our club, simple.

  44. danniitronix says

    sheesh said:
    Never ever forget that the fans made the club the business it is today.

    It’s a reality of life that, whoever was taking over the club was, in the eyes of the
    fans at least, going to have to justify that they have the fans’ and the club’s best interests at heart. Without the fans, you can forget about business. If no fans are going to games, buying the shirts (because we dislike the owners) or whatever shit the apologists may masturbate every night over, there is no business. 4000 season tickets being placed on general sale is an example of what happens when you mess with the fans and treat them with disdain and contempt. It doesn’t matter what happens on the field. The day you alienate the fans, you lose everything.

    It’s no good saying that the fans know nothing about Finance, they have no clue about how the club is operating. Fans care when they can’t afford to go to games, when they put up with aging players like Scholes and Giggs and we’re not spending on decent replacements (another debate altogether), and so on. When they feel the pinch, they care. You cannot just dismiss that out of hand.

    At the time of the takeover, fans quite rightly and obviously questioned ‘what’s in it for the owner?’ – which is a subjective question that we have been asking since these American scum bags took over. Facts are that the Glazers are businessmen, not United fans, so we have every right to ask this question. When you ask this very simple question, Finance doesn’t even come it. Nothing that has taken place under the Glazers’ stewardship has allayed fears that they are only looking out for themselves.

    I completely agree with Alf in that what fucks me off is that Glazer apologists (all of whom come across as smug, pretentious wankers) spend too much time debating the club’s ability to manage the debt when they lose sight of why United fans questioned the takeover in the first place and why they still do. We don’t want the Glazers at our club, simple.

    So long as the fans keep going, they will not give a fuck and why should they – they own the shop, fuck you if you don’t want to come in and buy.

    As a fan you can huff and puff all you want – the most you can do is vote with your feet and not buy United. Simple as.

    It’s a business, a brand, a copyright, a patent, not a football “club” – check out our badge. It’s not been a “club” for a time and neither have any of the big twenty or so clubs around the world.

    Money making machines and “fans” are just one of the customers. In the short term they don’t give a fuck about you, they give a shit about Sharp, AIG, Samsung, Stan Chart, Nike, etc.

    Fans are too emotional which is why they keep coming back. Fans need excitement outside their working life – for Glazers, this IS their working life – same for Nike, Aon … their job is to make money out of consumers.

    Glazers are tryint to stress United to the point at which a material number of fans fuck off. I think there is at least another 10-15 quid on a ticket that they can squeeze out – and then they just keep the cash cow turning.

    Fat American cunts, Russian pimp, Arab owner ? Any difference.

    The only difference is DEBT. That is it, do you see Citeh and Chavs complaining? No but you do see Scousers and Mancs complaining but – it’s because of the debt. So you do need to sort of understand a bit about it.

    Indeed, if you accept that there is essentially fuck all that United fans unless they start a serious movement (which they haven’t done yet) and the Glazers are here for the long haul, then you shld take an interest in the debt – it is here to stay. One solution as some people said above is to convert it into shares – i.e., banks swap the debt for shares, which lowers interest payments and frees up cash to use for improvement.

    No fan would give two shits if it wasn’t for the debt – it’s not overseas ownership that is the issue or a fat amercan taking over the club, it’s the debt and the rot that it is causing.

  45. Sidsidney says

    Dannii, that last line is bollocks. There’s two arguments; the debt and the way the Glazers treat the fans.

    Thousands of people can’t afford to go to Old Trafford anymore. The ground didn’t sell out once last season. There are thousands of empty seats, and if it wasn’t for the sloping roof it would be glaringly obvioius. A price freeze means fuck all when the price is too high.

    Aside from the cost issue, the Glazers don’t consult the fans over any of the decisions they make. They treat us like taxpayers. There’s no line of communication between us & them, it’s a case of shut up & pay.

    So if the debt didn’t exist fans would be pissed off with the Glazers because of their day to day running of the club. We want fans in charge, not money men. It is possible to find a balance n all. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. There’s plenty of examples.

  46. captainhormonecaptainhormone says

    i think the vast majority do trust fergie…fuck, with his record how dare we not do?

    but at this moment in time, our club is in a precarious situation, nd fergie is spouting shite that he either means or he is playing a game…ffs, fergie nail your true colours tot he mast and lets get the fucking cunting glazers out….and their apologist plastic cunt fans spouting shit on here and everywhere else too!!!!

Trackbacks

Leave a Reply

Login with your Social ID

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *