Poll: how long should Moyes get to achieve success?

December 8, 2013 Tags: Polls 28 comments
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Time, says David Moyes, is crucial to completing a “transitional period” in the post Sir Alex Ferguson era. Moyes start to life at Manchester United has perhaps been tougher than anybody expected, with the Reds losing five of 15 matches in the Premier League to date. Indeed, play the season forward from here and United’s 22 points will translate into just 56 by the season’s end – leaving the Reds somewhere around 8th and out of the European places altogether.

United’s season will surely not be that cataclysmic, but the numbers don’t lie and the Reds will find it almost impossible to win the Premier League from here, despite Moyes’ claims to the contrary after defeat to Newcastle United on Saturday.

In a competitive league it might take less than the 89 points that secured the Premier League over the past two seasons. But should, say, 82 secure the title come May, United will still need a record that reads 19 wins, two draws and just two defeats before the campaign’s end.

In fact fourth place and a Champions League spot might be tough this season – 50 further points requires Moyes’s side to secure around 16 wins, four draws, and just two further loses. To place this in context, over the past decade it has taken 73, 69, 68, 70, 72, 76, 68, 67, 61, and 60 points to secure fourth, with a lower total coming when a runaway winner has taken the league. In other words, it is likely that United will need in excess of 68 points to claim a Champions League place next season.

This begs a question – what is success and failure for David Moyes, and how long should he get for either to play out?

After all, few fans disagree that Moyes deserves time, but there is little relevance in the now frequent comparison to the time it took for Sir Alex Ferguson to achieve success at United – six long years to secure the title. Ferguson took over an under-achieving squad that hadn’t secured the league title in two decades. Moyes, however, secured a job at the Premier League title champions – a club that now boasts the third highest revenue of any club on the planet.

How long should Moyes get to achieve success?

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Spider31 - December 8, 2013 Reply

He has to have at least until the end of the season but if there hasn’t been clear and significant improvement between now and then, he should go. The current performance level of the team is pathetic. In terms of winning things, I think as long as he’s challenging, up to 3 years is acceptable.

George - December 8, 2013 Reply

It all depends on what he achieves this season, no top four could be absolutely horrific, top players may want to leave, no champions league money and champions league football to appeal to transfer targets. Out of the top 4 and you have to seriously doubt moyes but as lobg as he is consistantly reaching the champions league and showing signs of improvement e.g better football, better handling of press etc then he should get atleast 3 years.

George - December 8, 2013 Reply

It all depends on champions league football, finishing outside the top 4 could see united go on a decline, not on the scale of liverpool but still drop from title contenders, winning it every other season to fighting for top 4. Without champions league football it all falls apart, top players will want to leave for the highest level of football elsewhere and we lose on champions league money, drastically effecting our transfer targets and those that we do try and get may not want to join for no champions league football. If moyes reaches the top 4 and shows consistant signs of improvment, not just the occasional win against a good team and then a few bad performances to follow, then i will back him until the day he goes. For me january is make or break for Moyes, we obviously nees improving but after the summer we just had i don’t see why it would improve, to finish in the top 4 would be perfect right now considering our situation and then Moyes can crack on from there.

Dan O'Donnell - December 8, 2013 Reply

Success for Moyes this season is finishing 4th, a decent European Cup run (quarter finals) and maybe a cup or cup final appearance. I genuinely can’t see more than 1 of those happening let alone all 3. Judging on performances so far this is a season of mediocrity. Club will stick with him over summer no matter what, but start next season like this one and I think he will be gone by Christmas.

I’ve got faith but the body language, tactics and media handling are are worrying.

David Kinlan - December 8, 2013 Reply

The amount of people who want him sacked before Christmas is actually frightening. Moyes hasn’t covered himself in glory, that much is true, but to honestly expect it to continue like under the Fergie days straight away is naive. I’m confident Moyes will get it right. But at a minimum, give him 2 years to get it right. Making snap judgements after 4 months is ridiculous.

feherty - December 8, 2013 Reply

We can give him all the time un the world . But imagine the loss of trophies en revenue and faith in him and the brand Manchester United . Is it an option to give him time ?

stigo - December 8, 2013 Reply

Moyes inherited a team of champions,who he has turned into a mid table at best team.he is not a top 4 manager,he brought fallaini for 27 million,what a waste of money! They should sack him now before he wastes more money on players that are not good enuff to play for utd. Give a new manager a chance to turn things round in the jan window. If they don’t there won’t be any champions league next year cuz they won’t win the champions league and they will not finnish in the top 4 and that’s a fact! He should never of got the job in the first place. They should of gone 4 a manager that has a history of winning trophys but they went for fergys mate bad bad decision, he will brake utd for years to come!!

Oye - December 8, 2013 Reply

Replacing Sir Alex with the former Everton manager was the board’s mistake. But Moyes showed us how risky he was when he replaced the Manchester United’s coaching staff with Everton’s coaching staff. And then he went out and signed an Everton midfielder to improve our weak midfield.

Why do we keep making excuses for Moyes? Look at what Martinez is doing at Everton. And how about Pochettino at Southampton? David Moyes has brought his “small club mentality” to Manchester United.

We should never have hired a manager who was going to learn on the job. Clubs like Bayern, Man City and Chelsea don’t hire managers who haven’t won trophies, so why did we do it?

Over time, Moyes will probably be successful, but I don’t think he should be given time. A club like Manchester United expects instant success. What’s going to happen to our debt if we stop qualifying for the Champions League?

azeez - December 8, 2013 Reply

Mr Moyes, what u really need are players like Cabaye, Tiote, strooman, man united needs strong midfielder that can put energy and creativity to the game. Compare player like cleverly and Cabaye, one is more quality and look strong than the other. Cabaye or strooman are the kind of player we need. Pls Moyes sign either of them.

Russell Wilkins - December 8, 2013 Reply

so who would be your choice of manager? Not a lot of choice out there at the minute.

Jevon - December 8, 2013 Reply

I say give him until the end of the season and if he has secured CL football for next season then perhaps a bit more of time can be allowed, but if that is not achieved then drastic measures need to be taken. I am still confident that with in 2 years Giggs will lead us back to greatness as the real successor in the same way I am confident a top 4 spot will be achieved at the very least. Nevertheless, after this debacle of 6 months all I want is a bit of stability going forward and sacking him before Christmas is not the way to achieve that.

Gavin - December 8, 2013 Reply

Can we really take the chance that he will get us top four it doesn’t look like he will at the moment if we miss out on champions league who will want to sign for us

Bernie Phillips - December 8, 2013 Reply

Revealing more about Kagawa’s health, as well as Fellaini and Smalling, the boss continued: “It was a bad sickness. He thinks he ate too much, and he had to get his stomach pumped,WTF

Bernie Phillips - December 8, 2013 Reply

QUOT “There will be [light at the end of the tunnel] because it is a transitional period and that was always going to be the case, WHAT THE F

Amnon Zohar - December 8, 2013 Reply

You are old blind to the real problem. Moyes personality and United’s culture are incompatible. Moyes personality will not change so United can only change to match Moyes’. In other words a mid table mediocre team like Moyes’ Everton. Open your eyes. It’s about leadership and the players are not buying in. His fatal mistake was to fire the coaching staff. He broke the continuity by bringing Everton to United. That’s not what we need. I say go now!

zac lazari - December 8, 2013 Reply

Totally agree with the last comment. Your managers personality transmits itself to the pitch, and, as he he is a kind of negative guy with no imagination. This is what we are on the pitch now….sack him now

keshivan - December 8, 2013 Reply

Hez a cake…he needs 2 get sacked asap….he needs 2 go 4caoching lessons….we champions not everton he used 2 ccoach….that’s the point he don’t get….cake true!!!!!!!!!!!!

john - December 8, 2013 Reply

I personally think its the board’s fault for not giving moyes the support he needed in the last transfer marker. But if there is to be a chance then i would like to see ole gunner sholskear take charge at old trafford

james - December 8, 2013 Reply

I would have sacked him before the season started if I had the chance.

john - December 8, 2013 Reply

Also think about it yes united won the league last season but fergie new it was the right time to get out as he new this team was gonna struggle after last season its an ageing sqaud. Rio vidic evra carrick giggs?? Plus 3 or 4 under achievers nani young anderson smalling welbeck. That’s 10 players who for mi need replacing. Do t get mi wrong welbeck and vidic probably still have something about them

patrick - December 8, 2013 Reply

Man Utd needed a world class coach who can easily adapt to any league or someone who new the Man United culture.Moyes lacks all these.There should be a change come the end of the season if results don’t change.Man Utd missed out on Pep Guardiola who would’ve been the successor to SAF.Moyes’ inexperience at the top level is so obvious.Ed Woodward is not helping matters.Moyes has till end of the season to prove himself.

Joey - December 8, 2013 Reply

Where’s the Rant Cast.. It’s the only reason why I get up in the mornings!!

RobDiablo - December 9, 2013 Reply

If the Glazers don’t release the funds to fix the midfield, or Woodworm doesn’t make good use of those funds, it won’t matter if United keeps Moyes for a decade or fires him now.

It’s true that United are the reigning champions, but it was the second worst side to ever win the Premiership (the side that won no. 19 was the worst). There are some great players in this squad, but also three main reasons why this squad isn’t great:

1. Too many of the better players are nearing the end of their careers, while too many of what’s left are either unproven or mediocre at best.

2. Too many of the better players can’t be used because they play in the same position as one another.

3. The porous center of midfield doesn’t allow for the deployment of some of our most creative players as wingers, especially on the left in front of Evra. This just exacerbates problem 2.

Sorting out the center of midfield and purging the dross would go a long way toward fixing these problems. Until that’s accomplished, it doesn’t really matter who manages United.

john - December 9, 2013 Reply

I for one would like to bring the managed clopp from dortmund and give him a hundred mill to rebuild r sqaud spending money in top players dies and had worker. United have no excuse in spending .money there’s money there to spend. But as ive said before united and sir alex have never brought in a world class star till van persie. All the player’s we have brought in have ended up world class scholes giggs becks cantona van nistrooy Rooney rio vidic and ronaldo. United need to chance and take the bill by the horns and spend that 100 to 120 mill in 4 or 5 players and then use r young blood coming through to become the next class of 92

Benny - December 10, 2013 Reply

I just don’t get it, whenever someone starts talking about transition not going to be easy after Fergie. Seriously, do people reason from their bum? A lot of other top clubs changed managers in the summer, and look at what they are doing there. Manchester City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, and the smaller clubs, Southampton, Everton. Why is Manchester United’s overtly dramatised as ‘transition?’ Was Fergie superhuman? Didn’t Heyckenes achieved a treble with Bayern? Isn’t Pep continuing with the trend? Everton dropped a sand bag and took up a water bag, and are flying! Pochettinno’s doing great with Southampton. The fact is, Moyes was a very bad choice for a Manchester United Manager. He inherited a team that won the Premier League with 11 points, quater-finals in Champions’ League before Nani’s debacle; yet we are all here trying to sacrifice competence on the altar of time. David Moyes lacks the right mentality to excel at a project as big as Man Utd. Manchester United managers are hard, daring, confident, radical, motivational and attack-minded. Moyes is just too cautious, less-assured and conservative-minded to lead the kind of players we have. I stopped short of adding ‘mediocre.’ We cannot sacrifice Manchester United in order for Moyes to be given time; Moyes will have to be sacrificed to save our time, our name, our dreams, our hopes as The Pride of England. If he can’t get us a Champions’ league spot, he gets the boot. We’ve been supporting this club for 50 odd years, and we won’t let a certain glaswegian jump ship from Everton to come and destroy our badge in the form of our manager. We the fans are more Manchester United than David Moyes. Let’s not forget what happened to Inter Milan. Once, they were among European super powers; but from the season they failed to qualify for champions league, their ability to attract top players diminished and their decline started. Today Inter haven’t recovered, yet. Let’s learn from other club’s mistakes. Fergie made a mistake with Moyes, same way he made mistakes with some of his signings and decisions during his reign. Fergie’s human after all. I’d suggest Moyes takes a very handsome buyout at the end of this season, even if somehow he manages to get us European football. Let’s go for a fitting manager who will smell and act Manchester United in and out. Carlos Quiros, Ole Gunnar, Klopp, etc. And Moyes is so bad that Phil Jagielka when asked on BBC, what the difference at Everton was between Moyes and Martinez. He said “Well we train with a ball a lot more now.” I’ve lost hope in David Moyes.

David - December 10, 2013 Reply

I am amazed at some of the reactions to United’s current form. The real problem which fans are ignoring is the MASSIVE under investment by the scum bag owners , the Glazers. This has been coming for the last few seasons and the only reason it has been kept at bay is down to Fergie’s own personality and mangement skills. make no mistake, Fergie will have seen behind the scenes problems, we have had a mediocre mid field for too long, everybody knew it and it has never been addressed RVP was signed and he had a phenomenal season, albeit with a history of injury problems which are now only too obvious. The club is slowly going backwards and its all down to the Glazers, wake up to the fact. They will continue to leech money from the club with f…all in return.

Digga - December 10, 2013 Reply

The Glazers spent £27 million on fixing the whole in our CM, on a player chosen by Moyes. This money was wasted. The problem is still there, more than ever really, and Moyes doesn’t even trust his own player to do the job!

I’m not defending the owners (i don’t think i am?!), but when they do put their hand in their pocket, it needs to be spent well. Not sure Moyes is the man to do that…

Benny - December 10, 2013 Reply

David, your opinion that the Glazers are entirely to blame for United’s woes this season, is not only unfounded but grossly misplaced. If truly under investment in the playing squad is supposedly the principal reason we’ve underperformed phenomenally this season then Everton, Southampton, Newcastle won’t be beating us at our doorsteps, won’t be playing better football and won’t be higher than us in the league. Or do you imply Everton, Southampton, Newcastle etc, have better squad members than Manchester United? Invariably that’s what you mean. The blame goes round, yes; but chiefly the buck stops at the manager’s, and principally, David Moyes is a misfit for a Manchester United Manager. Our teams down the years have thrived primarily not on talent and brilliance, but on sheer motivation, good leadership, sound tactics, confidence, the never-say-die-attitude and the readiness to spill the guts and blood when putting on the jersey. Moyes has nothing of the sort to align with the mentality of the club and the kind of players we should have. A 1956 Volkswagen beetle engine can’t possibly work on a 2012 Range Rover Sport E. The dynamics ain’t just suited. Never.
Show me a square peg in a round hole, and I’ll show you a David Moyes, ‘Manager’ of Manchester United.

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