Rant Cast 191 – tearing them apart (again)

May 2, 2014 Tags: Rant Cast 14 comments
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Saturday, 2 March 1991. Manchester United 0 – 2 Everton.

Saturday, 27 April 2014. Manchester United 4 – 0 Norwich City.

More than 23 separate two key dates in Ryan Giggs’ career – days that the Welshman will surely never forget. Two decades ago a slight young man made his club début as a substitute in a sorry home defeat to Everton. Last Saturday Giggs walked out as club manager, albeit on an interim basis. It was, he said, the proudest day in a quarter-century associated with the club.

On this week’s Rant Cast Ed & Paul look back on Giggs’ début as United manager, assessing a performance that appeared liberated after months with players locked in a cycle of negativity. We discuss what might come next for United, with Dutchman Louis van Gaal favourite for the top job at Old Trafford. And we look at the potential scenarios in the coming weeks, with the ‘Class of ’92’ still keen to secure a place alongside whomever is leading the new regime.

Also on the show: transfer market rumours, Champions League semi-finals, and Gary Neville’s strange views, and we look forward to United’s upcoming matches against Sunderland and Hull City at Old Trafford.

Hit us up with any feedback below or follow the pod on Twitter: Paul – @UtdRantCast, Ed – @UnitedRant.

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Stream this episode using the player below or listen on iTunes and leave us a review! The podcast RSS feed is available here.

Rant Cast is produced by Tom Jenkins, TEEJSOUND


Syme - May 2, 2014 Reply

well that’s a nice unexpected Thursday night treat 🙂

Alec Sverguson - May 2, 2014 Reply

A little while ago there were so many late podcasts; Moyes is barely gone a week and you’re already churning them out early! Talk about not playing for the manager.

AnonPayn - May 2, 2014 Reply

The Rantcast is delighted and relieved that Moyes has gone!

Paul - May 2, 2014 Reply

Haha! 🙂 #GiggsThat

Ian - May 2, 2014 Reply

I think there’s one point that’s not been mentioned. If Giggs were appointed, Fergie would be very close behind him, at least for 2 or 3 years, effectively acting like a director of football. In the background but pulling the strings.

Subterranean Steve - May 3, 2014 Reply

Van Gaal was a hugely successful manager in the 1990′s but has only had two trophy-winning seasons in the last fifteen years.

He will want control over the hiring and firing of staff, and will want to bring in a whole team of coaches to instill his philosophy throughout the club. That will cause the reduction of the influence of the class of ’92, the possible demotion of Giggs to being just another coach not even an assistant manager, or possibly his loss from the club altogether.

I say give Giggs the job and let him choose persons with experience and expertise to assist him; a managerial team with Giggs at the top. He has spent 23 years in the United first team so it’s only experience in areas such as the transfer market that he lacks.

This will maintain the United tradition

Jack - May 3, 2014 Reply

Cracking as always.

Paul - May 3, 2014 Reply

You’re cracking as always <3

Julian - May 3, 2014 Reply

Rant Cast would be great except for your highly tedious disdain for Wayne Rooney. You rarely fail to have a dig week in and week out.

This disdain towards Rooney in certain quarters is really quite extraordinary. In some peoples eyes it seems he’s just about as much to blame for what has happened this season as Moyes . Very bizarre really when you look back and see how well he has played over the season. It seems this contract business has blinded many to his true value to the team. For me he had every right to go for the best deal he could seeing as this is most probably likely to be his last major contract of his career.
Had Fergie continued, Rooney would most likely have gone to Chelsea where Mourinho would have welcomed him with open arms. It would have made a difference to their season – with perhaps one or two trophies to show for it too. As for us, without Rooney we might be even further in the dwang.
Let’s just remind ourselves of a few facts to put Rooney’s value in perspective.:This season he is United’s leading goalscorer with 19 goals from 38 appearances (sub apps counting 0.5 games). That’s a goal every second game on average which is excellent by any standard. He is equal second, behind Suarez, with Gerrard and Lambert, in the EPL for the number of “assists” he has created. The next best United player is Mata in 23rd place.Even last season which was a troubled one under Fergie , Rooney managed 16 goals from 34 appearances. The season before that he scored 34 goals from 42 appearances overall.
Let’s now look at his overall career with United. He is third on the all time goalscorers list with 216 goals from 420 appearances. His goals to games ratio of a goal every 1.94 games is excellent and places him 7th on our all time list for players who have scored 50 goals or more for the club. It’s a great record and one that shows the true value of Wayne Rooney to United. As I said securing his future with United was perhaps Moyes’ only real achievement of his short spell with the club. Thank god he did.
And no he’s not in decline. At 28 he’s reaching his peak and will only get better. So I suggest Rant Cast off its blinkers and lets have some sensible comment for a change when it comes to Rooney.

Paul - May 3, 2014 Reply

Thanks for your comments. Obviously football has plenty of room for differing opinions on players.

We did, and almost always do, make mention of his excellent output in terms of numbers. The “disdain” comes from a variety of sources – firstly, he burnt his bridges with his profound emotional link with the club by seeking to move twice in four years.

Secondly, I hugely disagree with the notion that he’s reaching his peak and is going to get better. Look at the physical output stats. Also, look at his first touch.

I try not to speak for Ed, but I think it’s fair to say neither of us are big fans of Rooney on a personal level. As always, we make no secret of our biases – and personally, I always try to make sure I’m aware of how they are affecting my opinions, but I think it is EXTREMELY fair to say that Rooney is neither the best “number 9” or “number 10” at the club. If you think he is, that’s of course fair enough, but to mark out a difference of opinion as “highly tedious disdain” is, in my view, to do us a disservice.

We always attempt to share our honest views on things, and honestly, I’m not a big fan of Wayne’s. You obviously are, and that’s fine, I don’t find your opinions to be tedious, even if I find the conclusions you draw from the numbers to be different to my own, and as I said, massively disagree with the idea that he is at his peak and rising. But each to their own. Glad you enjoy the bits of the show where we’re not talking about Rooney. I’d like to think we’ll continue to give him credit when he does good stuff, and take him to task when he does bad stuff. Not that he’d care a damn either way, and nor should he 🙂

Julian - May 4, 2014 Reply

Thanks for your response Paul. I must say, despite your detailed explanation, I still find your position on Rooney somewhat extraordinary. It appears to me to be illogical and born out of a deep seated prejudice, as you admit, against Rooney himself. Your major gripe appears to be that he has asked for a transfer twice in four years and is therefore disloyal and, I suppose, in your minds, not worthy of representing United. That’s my assumption anyway. We’ll leave aside the fact that his second “transfer request” is highly debatable and may not have actually taken place in quite the way Fergie said it did. By the way, Rooney is not the first United great to have intimated he might leave if his demands weren’t met. I can think of Denis Law and later Roy Keane and Rio Ferdinand. What about the time when Eric Cantona walked out of the club following his ban, despite all the support the club had given him? Fergie moved heaven earth to entice him back because he knew what an asset he was. A bit like Moyes with Rooney this season. Should we have viewed all these greats as being “disloyal” because they wanted to look after their own interests? No I didn’t think so! By the way, Rooney was quite right to question t he club’s ambition back in 2010. You only have to look at the squad Fergie left behind for the answer to that one.

You seem to want to support your view of Rooney with the spurious argument that he’s not “our best No 9” nor “our best No 10”. He may not be, although I don’t know who is but anyway one thing I do know is that overall Rooney is our best and most influential player! You’ve only got to look at yesterday’s game as yet another example of what we lack invariably when Rooney isn’t playing.

Despite your argument about the contract business, one thing that cannot be denied surely, in the vast majority of games he has played for United Rooney has given 110% – 120% in terms of effort and passion – including during this most difficult of seasons. What more can you ask for and what other player can you say that about with any confidence?

I used the word “tedious” because you seem intelligent guys who, on the whole have some worthwhile and entertaining comments to make on matters United – even for a seasoned observer like myself , if I may make so bold. However, for me, your presentation is tarnished by this illogicality regarding Rooney and the way you never seem to fail to introduce it. Even your rare positives about him are given quite grudgingly, it seems.

No matter, keen but civil debate on these issues are what its all about at the end of the day. Thanks for listening to my rant!

Ian - May 5, 2014 Reply

Interesting argument you two are having! Just to have another input I’d say:
1) Rooney’s peak was sometime between 18 and 23 years old. He’s been in gradual decline since then. I’m not talking Nani levels of decline but he’s not at his peak.
2) He is consistently good but rarely great. He ought to be scoring 25 league goals a season, about 5 of which should be top quality. He scored from the half way line recently and an overhead kick a few years ago. If you see his YouTube clips he was scoring crackers frequently when he was young.
3) His first touch can be terrible, he can’t get past players, he loses his temper easily and he needs to lose some weight. I also feel he bullies players like Nani for wasting chances when he wastes his own.
4) He has no tricks which can give him a yard or two to get past players.
5) He can’t play as a lone striker. In that role he would have two centre backs to mark him. He neither has the physicality of a Drogba nor the speed of a Torres of old. He becomes ineffectual until he drops deep which leaves no one up front.
6) He seems to be insisting that he plays in his preferred roles of 9 or 10. This is a pity because he’s a versatile player. He can cross, shoot, defend and is probably the best long passer in the squad. Both Kagawa and Mata seem only to be able to play as a #10 and have the defensive ability of a traffic cone. The team as a whole would be better if Rooney played in midfield with one of those at #10. When he plays up front he spends half the time in midfield anyway. Just count the number of long forward diagonal balls he plays.

SKW - May 8, 2014

Rant’s view on Rooney is ridiculous and always has been. Their irritation stems from Rooney wanting away, but Even Ferguson’s book makes it clear that Rooney wanting away had mostly to do with his frustration about the state of the midfield, something we all share.

In contrast, Rant didn’t seem nearly as bothered that Van Persie essentially gave up on the side and sat out for most of the season. If Rooney had done that, the boys would have been livid. Or that Welbeck griped and said he wanted a transfer for being played out of position, which is precisely Rooney’s other position that upsets the Rantcast. Never understood that either. If I was hired to do A and suddenly was being made to spend the best years of my career doing B, and in the process hurting future job prospects, I would be upset just as upset as a footballer.

Is Rooney the player he was? No. And weave Fergie to thank for that, along with Rooney himself, I suppose. But the lad has played his socks off for us this year (either he or De Gea are the player of the year, because who else could it be?) And I do not think it is coincidence that the times we played the best this season were the times Rooney was playing well either.

RVP is a great player, but clearly between a younger Rooney and RVP, who really should not even have been bought, no matter HOW good we all know he is, I think you keep Rooney.

Stevie D - May 4, 2014 Reply

“When routine bites hard, and ambitions are low”. Giggs will tear you apart again.
Seems like a very appropriate time to be singing the Giggsy version of Love Will Tear Us Apart Again.

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