Brexit

Political Debate
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 5048
Joined: 3 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

2 months ago

Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Lazarus wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Lazarus wrote:
2 months ago
Mogg can't understand how any of this could or would lead to violence. Yeah right!!!! PRICK"
Just wanted to pick up on this - I've seen Mogg asked a few times about how a hard border might bring about a return of the conflict in NI - and the cunt is completely unmoved. The far right wingers like him Boris Johnson don't give a fuck. Beneath the "eccentric" toff veneer is a viciousness, but also a fucking brutal coldheartedness. They just don't care. For them NI would represent a rebellious colony that needs taming. And they'd love to send the troops back in to carry on Thatcher's work who by this point they've deified. They'll look at those photos of troops in peoples gardens and see nothing but patriotism, power, control.
It's that old, old argument..... Just because we're tramping on your human rights, controlling your life, keeping you poor, killing you, there's no excuse for violence!!! We're the government our violence is justified.

Don't get me wrong, i'm in no way supporting any violence, been there got the T-shirt. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy before there is any violence. Marches and protests are not violence even when there is stone throwing and car burning. It's civil unrest no excuse for shooting people.

"If learn anything from history it's we learn nothing from history."
Spot on. The tories will happily create the conditions to bring violence back to NI, just like they're bringing toxic nationalism and fascism back. They've learned nothing from the past - even when you've got the likes of Harry Brown saying we're going down the same road. It's never them that suffer though, is it? Maybe if Thatcher hadn't have gone for a piss in the hotel in brighton they'd have learned their lesson. But instead it's just working class people that die.

no no no!

They've learnt EVERYTHING from the past, mate.

They've learnt that you can hoodwink the public into hating on each other without even hardly taking a breath. They've learnt that stoking anger between communities is the best way to stop them thinking about anything further than their own noses. They've learnt that the poorer you make the people you want to manipulate, the easier it is to use their desperation to guide them down paths you want them to go down. They've learnt that, as long as you keep your wars and land grabs far enough away from your doorstep, you can get away with it. They've learnt the right sort of levels for the give with one hand and take away with the other game that the majority of people don't spot it so easily.

This is a revision of the past, not an accidental repeat.
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
sheesh
Legend
Posts: 2290
Joined: 3 years ago

2 months ago

The country is really really fucked.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

FuB wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Lazarus wrote:
2 months ago
Sid wrote:
2 months ago
Lazarus wrote:
2 months ago
Mogg can't understand how any of this could or would lead to violence. Yeah right!!!! PRICK"
Just wanted to pick up on this - I've seen Mogg asked a few times about how a hard border might bring about a return of the conflict in NI - and the cunt is completely unmoved. The far right wingers like him Boris Johnson don't give a fuck. Beneath the "eccentric" toff veneer is a viciousness, but also a fucking brutal coldheartedness. They just don't care. For them NI would represent a rebellious colony that needs taming. And they'd love to send the troops back in to carry on Thatcher's work who by this point they've deified. They'll look at those photos of troops in peoples gardens and see nothing but patriotism, power, control.
It's that old, old argument..... Just because we're tramping on your human rights, controlling your life, keeping you poor, killing you, there's no excuse for violence!!! We're the government our violence is justified.

Don't get me wrong, i'm in no way supporting any violence, been there got the T-shirt. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy before there is any violence. Marches and protests are not violence even when there is stone throwing and car burning. It's civil unrest no excuse for shooting people.

"If learn anything from history it's we learn nothing from history."
Spot on. The tories will happily create the conditions to bring violence back to NI, just like they're bringing toxic nationalism and fascism back. They've learned nothing from the past - even when you've got the likes of Harry Brown saying we're going down the same road. It's never them that suffer though, is it? Maybe if Thatcher hadn't have gone for a piss in the hotel in brighton they'd have learned their lesson. But instead it's just working class people that die.

no no no!

They've learnt EVERYTHING from the past, mate.

They've learnt that you can hoodwink the public into hating on each other without even hardly taking a breath. They've learnt that stoking anger between communities is the best way to stop them thinking about anything further than their own noses. They've learnt that the poorer you make the people you want to manipulate, the easier it is to use their desperation to guide them down paths you want them to go down. They've learnt that, as long as you keep your wars and land grabs far enough away from your doorstep, you can get away with it. They've learnt the right sort of levels for the give with one hand and take away with the other game that the majority of people don't spot it so easily.

This is a revision of the past, not an accidental repeat.
Tbf, you're spot on
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

This is a good article that articulates working class reasoning for brexit pretty well. Might not be right or whatever, but it is what it is, I'd argue somewhat inevitable from the horrific de-industrialisation process many towns and cities have been through since the 70s and 80s when neolib politics took hold. Nice to see it in the guardian. Makes a change from the middle class journos having a tantrum because suddenly politics affects them.

So, poorer Brexiters voted to be worse off? There’s nothing wrong in that - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ss-leavers
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

Great article this https://jacobinmag.com/02/2019/enzo-tra ... YGrXjOKIgo
The rise of these reactionary and nationalistic “Europhobic” movements, however, is a product of the policies implemented over twenty years by the EU Commission itself. The EU has become a tool of financial capitalism that has imposed its rules onto all its governments through a compulsory legal structure, made of a complex system of laws sometimes inscribed into constitutions.

The most spectacular achievement of neoliberal elites has been to transform their own social bankruptcy — in 2008, they were saved by the states — into a financial crisis of the states themselves, who have supposedly been spending money beyond their means and should now transform themselves into profitable and competitive institutions. After two Commission presidents like Barroso (today a Goldman Sachs advisor) and Junker (the former leader of a fiscal paradise like Luxemburg); after the Greek crisis and ten years of austerity policies on a continental scale, the rise of right-wing populist leaders like Matteo Salvini and Viktor Orbán is not striking at all: “The sleep of reason engenders monsters.”

We cannot struggle effectively against post-fascism by defending the EU. It is by changing the EU that we can defeat nationalism and right-wing populism.
The neolibs and EU paved the way for the rise of these new fascists. Gone is the old law & order, anti jews, pro eugenics, now it's all anti globalisation, anti islam, anti EU, take control of our borders. Globalisation aka sending work abroad is a key feature of neolib ecnomics, as is free movement of people, aka cheap labour. The fascists are gaining ground socially and politically rallying against these two things in particular. And like this fella says it could bring down the EU in the medium/long term depending on how french, german, dutch etc elections go. The fascists don't even have to win to do damage tbf they can just pull the right wing parties further right, like UKIP did with the tories.

That's the crisis centrists are facing, after decades of attacking the poor and making vicious cuts which fuck people and cause suffering - all of which have made the rich richer - people quite rightly aren't going to vote for the cunts again. They're finished. Macron is currently doing a hastily arranged PR tour across france to try and quell the yellow vest anger, which is looking like it could overthrow the government because unlike the UKs working class who were bloodied into submission at Ogreave, the french working class were never defeated, and they know the only way to get shit done is to literally make the rich fear for their lives which is why the YV protests have been so violent (and thus effective - ending the tax hike etc) - anyway, in those speeches to activists Macron is STILL saying he's going to have close hospitals, libraries, take money out your pocket so you can't afford to live. It just shows a fucking unbelievable contempt for working class people, like centrists are so stubborn in their bullshit they're marching us towards a modern fascist era.

Anyway, bit of a rant this but fuck me what a time to be alive
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

Great bit of journalism that. It doesn't surprise me that the far right have links to the bulldingdon club. The UKs top private schools and unis are basically a conveyor belt to power. The UK has had 19 prime ministers from Eton ffs, whose fees are 30k a year. Normal people can't afford for that.

Anyway after Trump and other right wing populist twats have been elected I can honestly see Mogg as our PM at some point. All bets are off these days.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

Pro tory and labour MPs talk about setting up a new centrist party :))

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rty-labour

Chuka Umunna etc are all tories in disguise. They've been after Corbyn from day one. They're not socialists, they're neolibs that belong in a neolib party. Good fucking riddance.
User avatar
Lazarus
Legend
Posts: 14895
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

.....and they're off! The Whiney Seven.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 22320
Joined: 5 years ago

2 months ago

Lazarus wrote:
2 months ago
.....and they're off! The Whiney Seven.
The trash is taking itself out

I love how they said the "hard left" has "hijacked" the party - that's the same hard left manifesto that got these 7 cunts elected with big majorities and turned the party into the biggest in europe. They say they're standing up for "fairness" and even "kindness" - this is the same cunts who worked for Blair and enacted brutal neolib policies that plunged millions into poverty, created workfare and invaded & occupied iraq.

Also note how none of them are standing down from their constituencies.

But it's good that they're leaving because they've solved a problem over what to do with those that have insurmountable ideological differences with the new left wing labour. There's no place for tory lite twats that want unregulated freemarkets, universal credit, privatisation etc. Some aren't happy that those from mc / professional backgrounds like Umunna, who for 20/30 years had a buy into labour, are now being ditched in favour of more diverse people from wc backgrounds that haven't been to private schools, oxbridge, worked as SPADs etc. That's what a lot of this is about. The only social mobility Chuka has cared about is his own upward mobility in the labour party, who he expected to be leading by now.

But bullying, antisemitism and racism is a huge problem in labour, like it is all political parties. But it was a problem when this lot were working under the biggest bully of them all, Alastair Campbell. But they didn't see a problem then, yet they do now???
Post Reply