General Election December 12th

Political Debate
User avatar
marlon
Legend
Posts: 5515
Joined: 7 years ago

6 months ago

Sid wrote:
6 months ago
Labour should have stuck to leave but the centrists pulled em right and that meant their working class vote felt cheated, again, by the state, whose done nothing but fuck em for the last 40 years
That's so twisted. It was the same membership who voted for corbyn and far more radical policies than the party machinery was willing to give them.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 24258
Joined: 7 years ago

6 months ago

marlon wrote:
6 months ago
Sid wrote:
6 months ago
Labour should have stuck to leave but the centrists pulled em right and that meant their working class vote felt cheated, again, by the state, whose done nothing but fuck em for the last 40 years
That's so twisted. It was the same membership who voted for corbyn and far more radical policies than the party machinery was willing to give them.
That ignores the influence of the centrist cokeheads in the party on the brexit line and the membership
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 24258
Joined: 7 years ago

6 months ago

Who did you vote for, Marlon? Lib dems, right
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4632
Joined: 6 years ago

6 months ago

Where are all the closet Tory voters on here?
Too ashamed to raise their hands, or what?
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4632
Joined: 6 years ago

6 months ago

marlon wrote:
6 months ago
swampash wrote:
6 months ago
Terrible night for the UK.
Scotland is surely lost. And NI?
Scotland won't get a ref. It's a great example of how shit FPTP is though. 80% of the seats with 45% of the vote
Good point marlon. Going to be really interesting to see how this pans out. The Scottish nationalist up against an English nationalist government that sees Scotland as its northern colony.
Unlikely to end well.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
User avatar
swampash
Legend
Posts: 4632
Joined: 6 years ago

6 months ago

Hey Sid, what do you reckon explains the fact so many traditional labour voters voted for the Tories?
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
sheesh
Legend
Posts: 2577
Joined: 4 years ago

6 months ago

Well, those who support Corbyn will invariably blame the party's position on Brexit. Other people (including MPs who went out canvassing) have said anecdotally that time and time again voters were telling them they couldn't vote for Corbyn. They just didn't like him, for whatever reason, even though they also probably weren't massive fans of Johnson either.

I think Labour were in a difficult position on Brexit. 52% of the overall vote went to parties in favour of a second referendum, but that vote was split between different parties. What you ended up with was a situation where remain voters were voting tactically to try and keep the Tories out.

IMO, they were never going to 'out Brexit' the Tories, who have proven through their votes in Parliament that they are happy to even support no deal Brexit. Labour has flip flopped in the last 3 years to appease both remainers and leavers.

Also, a lot of voters just plainly didn't like Corbyn, for whatever reason (his background, links to certain organisations). It could be that Labour will change the messenger but continue on the same socialist platform, rather than going back to being a centre right party. Whether or not that will yield better results in 5 years time, I don't know.
Last edited by sheesh on Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 24258
Joined: 7 years ago

6 months ago

swampash wrote:
6 months ago
Hey Sid, what do you reckon explains the fact so many traditional labour voters voted for the Tories?
A shitload of reasons. I'll try not to write an essay... not backing leave is the main one. And 3 years of relentless personal attacks from all sides. People told me he was an IRA terrorist, and that he's racist, anti-Semitic, despite being involved in actual anti fash anti semitism and human rights activism for 4 decades.

Also Corbyn's brand of socialism never convinced enough of the worst hit working class areas like mine whose vote labour have taken for granted whilst decimating them with neolib policies. It was designed and led by the same middle/upper class types who've been through the same bourgeois education system as the rest of the political class (Jones, Sarkar, founders of Momentum etc).

Also nationalism, racism, which the left hasn't countered. The fact the tories ran a Trump like campaign full of bullshit. The fact a lot of voters took their news from fucking memes about Corbyn.

Having said all that, I read more people voted for labour this time than under Miliband. Might not be labour, but f governments are gonna have to end austerity and start investing. It's where capital is going
User avatar
Sid
Legend
Posts: 24258
Joined: 7 years ago

6 months ago

That's what 3 years of vicious attacks from the right and the liberals do for you. He was super popular when he first took over. Remember tens of thousands of people up and down the country chanting oh Jeremy Corbyn? Then the smear campaigns took hold. Spin doctor Peter Mandelson, who said "I work every day to bring about the end of Jeremy Corbyn"

They had you believing he was a racist despite decades of human rights and anti racism action (not just pointless marches), so people went and voted for an actual racist instead.
Post Reply