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Sid
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3 weeks ago

marlon wrote:
3 weeks ago
We hardly ever countered under Mourinho. It was one of the most obvious changes after Ole took over. Ole played how Mourinho was supposed to, but never did.
Innit. I'm being generous when I count the long balls to Lukaku as counters tbf. But Pulis couldn't build a functioning team. Our forwards were too deep, like Rash & Martial at fullback.
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swampash
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3 weeks ago

bman/marlon:
from my perspective Rodrigues has looked good for Bayern when played deeper. He has far more to his game, imho, than Mata and he tackles, so again from my perspective would be an improvement on Pogba in midfield.
Problem is the inflated price we paid for Pogba. It does not reflect his real value to us. He only does half the job in midfield, so is probably only worth half the money we paid for him, which suggests to me that Real had it about right if they did offer us £25M plus Rodrigues. If Pogba doesn't buck his ideas up and also goes on to have a seriously negative influence on the rest of the team, then I suspect we will rue not taking Real's offer.
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bman2
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3 weeks ago

swampash wrote:
3 weeks ago
bman/marlon:
from my perspective Rodrigues has looked good for Bayern when played deeper. He has far more to his game, imho, than Mata and he tackles, so again from my perspective would be an improvement on Pogba in midfield.
Problem is the inflated price we paid for Pogba. It does not reflect his real value to us. He only does half the job in midfield, so is probably only worth half the money we paid for him, which suggests to me that Real had it about right if they did offer us £25M plus Rodrigues. If Pogba doesn't buck his ideas up and also goes on to have a seriously negative influence on the rest of the team, then I suspect we will rue not taking Real's offer.
I was being a bit facetious when I said James was "shite", and he probably has more going for him than Mata that's true, but he just seems like one of those that was overhyped because of a good international tournament. I've seen him quite a few times for Bayern in the past few seasons, and he rarely made much impression on me.

Football matters aside, I would have thought that Pogba is one of the most valuable players in the sport from a commercial perspective, especially at a club like United, so our valuation of him likely reflects that too. McTominay is on the cover of the PES game now apparently, with Messi. So you can only imagine how appealing Pogba is to various commercials interests out there. So from that perspective alone Madrid's offer was taking the piss, and they know it. Perez maybe shares your dim view of Pogba's football value.

Talent-wise I think Pogba is worth his valuation, but I don't think anyone denies we don't see consistent impact equal to that talent.
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Lazarus
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3 weeks ago

I hope we can sign someone really appealing to play in our commercial perspective postion........

Jesus wept!
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swampash
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3 weeks ago

Call me old fashioned, but I tend to judge a player's value as a function of what the do on the pitch rather than their value as an advertising asset. If the balance is shifting to the latter then we're totally fucked.
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bman2
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3 weeks ago

So if a suitcase is full of money it has the same value as if it was empty?
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swampash
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3 weeks ago

That is really a rather silly argument bman. Not up to your usually high standard.
Angelina Jolie gets her suitcase stuffed full for advertising Louis Vuitton handbags but I don't see anyone suggesting we sign her up to play football.
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Lazarus
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3 weeks ago

Usually high standard.....? =))
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marlon
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3 weeks ago

Youngest starting xi two weeks running and football is quite good all things considered. Don’t think I’d sack Solskjaer if we don’t qualify for the CL this season.
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bman2
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3 weeks ago

swampash wrote:
3 weeks ago
That is really a rather silly argument bman. Not up to your usually high standard.
Angelina Jolie gets her suitcase stuffed full for advertising Louis Vuitton handbags but I don't see anyone suggesting we sign her up to play football.
You're saying the club has too high a valuation on Pogba. I'm pointing out that for such a high profile commercial asset, his value to the club is going to reflect some non-purely football matters. Why are English players "worth more" on the transfer market? Because they have a higher commercial value than a player of similar skill from, say, Slovenia. Especially to an English club.

Hypothetically, if the club figured that Pogba brought in £25M per year in revenue in shirt sales and whatever else, they ought to sell him for at least £100M, or a four years' contract worth of the revenue he produces. Otherwise you'd literally just be handing money over to the club buying him. Obviously it's more complicated -- commercial value has some connection to how good a footballer you are, and good footballers also presumably produce revenue by helping you win tournaments. But I've made my point. You can complain about it, wish it wasn't that way, but a player's price isn't a "score" of how good at football he is.

Also, the same player can be worth more to a commercially powerful club like United than he would be to, say, Crystal Palace. United should in theory make more money from a player than Palace would with the same player. So United might price him at £50M and Palace might say, that's daft, he's not that good, he's not worth that.
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