The Post like a "Top Red" Thread

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Sid
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5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Sid wrote:The fans thought we were right to revert back to 442 and the diamond because it apparently allowed us to score 2 goals against QPR after a dire first half

So we go 442 against a team 75 places below us, and for the first 45 minutes we can't even dominate midfield let alone attack their goal, and at times we were overrun

Second half saw Cambridge stop competing for the centre circle, so we were given control of the game and thus lots of possession (given being the important word because we didn't take it from them). We saw more slow passing, but in 442, so nobody blamed the system like they did against QPR, instead they blame Van Gaal because they wrongly think this is how he likes to play football

...

He's going to have to keep proving that his philosophy is a good thing, and he probably never will because the culture against it is too strong

So at worst you're looking at an England scenario were English people are the reason why the football is dogshit
I don't understand your position Sid... some, but not all are complaining about the system/philosophy... 3 at the back, 4, I don't really five a fuck as long as we're getting the best out of what we've got... we're not... you seem to be getting all defensive on Van Gaals behalf, simply because he's not English, and therefore deserves more respect... you were fit for murder in your criticism of Mopes... whose football was no worse... I honestly don't care about how Van Gaal sets us out to play, as long as it works... and, by the way, I haven't baled on him yet either... but when he starts claiming the odds were against United, playing Cambridge fuckin United, then he's got no excuses for being compared to Mopes... because that's just as stupid a thing as Mopes would have said...
My point is this, right... you say you don't care what the football is like so long as we win. But that's not true. You do care about the football, you want performances. In Fergie's last few seasons we got the results but not the performances. The football was dire, and you weren't happy with it - none of us were. We couldn't dominate the riff raff like Cambridge last night, and we were all up in arms about it. So don't lie to yourself, you and everybody else care about performances.

Another reason why you care about how we play is that you and other fans wouldn't tolerate tika taka or maybe even possession based football at United. The signs have been there already. I can't be arsed with tika taka at United and I'm the least unBritish cunt here, who actually values possession when it doesn't result in a goal. And I'm not about the start romanticizing Guardiola's football like is happening in the other thread, because I can admit the truth that at times it's not just fucking boring, it's painful. Whereas you and Sheesh seem to aving it now, from nowhere.

Anyway, the point: can he pull it off or not. I still think he can, just about, but it's a much bigger and more expensive job then originally thought. He will be backed financially because of the Adidas deal and because of his previous success. This also earns him more time than Moyes too, because he's won more than him, and he has a clear plan which has worked everywhere else. Whereas with Moyes, we know now via the players that he had no clear vision, he didn't have a successful approach to football, he wasn't buying to a system or plan, he was making it up as he went along. One week possession, the next week long ball. Bullshit.

Then there's the wider point which I'm more arsed about... if Van Gaal can implement his philosophy, but the Top Reds and others don't like it (like those fans jeering the football we played against Hull), then we're in the England trap of wanting to win, but win in a certain way that suits an outdated romanticized notion of bullshit, which will end up hampering the club and we'll be shit for ages.

This Top Red we're superior, we play the proper way bullshit was the thinking that informed the decision to hire Moyes; a proper British manager, sensible, honest, believes in hard bloody work, tells it how it is - all that bullshit. It's the thinking that made us believe we were too good for Mourinho and his arrogance and his conservative football. These decisions stemming from this bullshit mentality have hampered the club, and it will again if we're not careful
danniitronix
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5 years ago

Well said Sidney.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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5 years ago

Sid mate... you and I just aren't getting though here, because I'm really not getting you, and you're obviously not getting me...

"you say you don't care what the football is like so long as we win."... no, I've not said that, in fact, I've made a point of saying different...

This is what I said, and it's the best way I can think of saying it... "3 at the back, 4, I don't really give a fuck as long as we're getting the best out of what we've got"...

If we had Peter Crouch, I'd piss and moan about what a poor signing he is, but if we used him, I'd expect us to play to his head... if Van Gaal wants to play tika-taka football, fine... make it fuckin work then... but whether it's tika-taka, or Stoke-attacka, head tennis, it's got fuck all to do with the dire performances of 100million quids worth of attackers, who couldn't score a fuckin goal against Cambridge... Cambridge Sid... 80+% possession for 45 minutes, created only a couple half arsed chances??? That's not about systems, or back line tactics... that's simply about a forward line, who aren't working properly...

Now... sometimes shit happens... and teams lose to much lesser opposition... there's plenty of different reasons for it... bad luck, bad reffing, unbeatable keepers... Ferguson had his pants pulled down plenty by teams that couldn't even afford his drinking habits... Mourinho lost today, so did Pellegrini... both to teams they were odds on to smash... but Van Gaal has had too many of these... in just a few short months... without any of the fallout you'd expect for such poor performances...

I still hope Van Gaal gets it right... he's all we've got... but come on, whatever style he wants to play... we're a better team than what he's got us playing...
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Alfonso Bedoya
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5 years ago

danniitronix wrote:Well said Sidney.
Wow... quality...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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redzebs
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5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:Sid mate... you and I just aren't getting though here, because I'm really not getting you, and you're obviously not getting me...

"you say you don't care what the football is like so long as we win."... no, I've not said that, in fact, I've made a point of saying different...

This is what I said, and it's the best way I can think of saying it... "3 at the back, 4, I don't really give a fuck as long as we're getting the best out of what we've got"...

If we had Peter Crouch, I'd piss and moan about what a poor signing he is, but if we used him, I'd expect us to play to his head... if Van Gaal wants to play tika-taka football, fine... make it fuckin work then... but whether it's tika-taka, or Stoke-attacka, head tennis, it's got fuck all to do with the dire performances of 100million quids worth of attackers, who couldn't score a fuckin goal against Cambridge... Cambridge Sid... 80+% possession for 45 minutes, created only a couple half arsed chances??? That's not about systems, or back line tactics... that's simply about a forward line, who aren't working properly...

Now... sometimes shit happens... and teams lose to much lesser opposition... there's plenty of different reasons for it... bad luck, bad reffing, unbeatable keepers... Ferguson had his pants pulled down plenty by teams that couldn't even afford his drinking habits... Mourinho lost today, so did Pellegrini... both to teams they were odds on to smash... but Van Gaal has had too many of these... in just a few short months... without any of the fallout you'd expect for such poor performances...

I still hope Van Gaal gets it right... he's all we've got... but come on, whatever style he wants to play... we're a better team than what he's got us playing...

Thats pretty much it, we've huffed and puffed before under Fergie, but rarely did he stick out a full team against such lower opposition.

It's not about Johnny Foreigner and their style or tactics, it's about playing well and winning as much as possible, and of course occasionally winning in spite of not playing well, it doesn't matter if he's using a formation strange to us, if these supposedly stellar names, ADM Falcao etc were tearing the league up, we wouldn't even be having this debate, the new players arent living up to the hype, the existing players arent adapting, so it's either conform and adapt throughout the course of the season which I think creates difficulties, or play to your strengths and what players are comfortable in and introduce your transition bit by bit.

And I don't buy the whole well other shit teams can play this or that system, they arent United, they aren't expected to win every game and the opposition wont treat every game against them like a cup final.

Whats the point of all these growing pains, trying to batter this system into players that everyone has pretty much agreed May/will not be here next season,

Get the best from what you have then sign the players you want, then have a full pre season to implement your system and style.

We are lucky that Chelsea are out, City are out, Liverpool have to go to the Reebok for a replay, Southqmpton and Spurs are out, this is our best chance for years and probably will be our best chance for years to come to life the FA cup again, and yes, we will do them at OT, but the talent on that pitch should have us safely into the next round instead of just holding onto the ball until a big money signing can do something special out of the blue.
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
Steggo
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5 years ago

redzebs wrote:And I don't buy the whole well other shit teams can play this or that system, they arent United, they aren't expected to win every game and the opposition wont treat every game against them like a cup final.

Whats the point of all these growing pains, trying to batter this system into players that everyone has pretty much agreed May/will not be here next season,

Get the best from what you have then sign the players you want, then have a full pre season to implement your system and style.
Great points and valid. I think we all expected Van Gaal to come in and do a 'Mourinho' and instantly get the team playing great football. The trouble is that he was starting from a point of double transition,picking up the pieces from what Ferguson had left,compounded by the mess Moyes made.Of the players that have come in since Van Gaal started,which ones did he REALLY want-probably none. They were a 'quick' fix, a plaster over a gaping wound. Thats not to say he couldn't utilise them in a better way, but thats not his style. He wants his own players playing his way and to get that is going to take time and in this day and age 'supporters' are not prepared to wait.

I said,before the season started,that getting 4th place would be a bonus. I still think that is the case.I think he will be better judged when he does have a full pre-season and gets the players he actually wants to implement the system. Everyone wants a team playing with panache etc and playing 'the United way' but those days,at least for this season,are gone.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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5 years ago

Steggo wrote:
redzebs wrote:And I don't buy the whole well other shit teams can play this or that system, they arent United, they aren't expected to win every game and the opposition wont treat every game against them like a cup final.

Whats the point of all these growing pains, trying to batter this system into players that everyone has pretty much agreed May/will not be here next season,

Get the best from what you have then sign the players you want, then have a full pre season to implement your system and style.
Great points and valid. I think we all expected Van Gaal to come in and do a 'Mourinho' and instantly get the team playing great football. The trouble is that he was starting from a point of double transition,picking up the pieces from what Ferguson had left,compounded by the mess Moyes made.Of the players that have come in since Van Gaal started,which ones did he REALLY want-probably none. They were a 'quick' fix, a plaster over a gaping wound. Thats not to say he couldn't utilise them in a better way, but thats not his style. He wants his own players playing his way and to get that is going to take time and in this day and age 'supporters' are not prepared to wait.

I said,before the season started,that getting 4th place would be a bonus. I still think that is the case.I think he will be better judged when he does have a full pre-season and gets the players he actually wants to implement the system. Everyone wants a team playing with panache etc and playing 'the United way' but those days,at least for this season,are gone.
No Steggs... I'm not having that Mate... 4th is not a "bonus"... it's the bare minimum we should expect... not because of some deluded sense of our worth, but because 1, outside of Chelsea and City, no one else SHOULD be considered better, and I stressed SHOULD because 2, Van Gaal, new manager or not, has got a fuck of a lot of highly paid talent that he's not getting even competent performances from... a few weeks ago, when we were dropping points because of defensive blunders, the complaint was, the defence was shit, but we should be able to outscore teams more often than not, with the forwards we've got... you can make all the arguments you want for Van Gaal needing more time to implement new styles/tactics/systems... and these arguments are defendable if we're dropping points to good teams... work in progress, not there yet, etc... but there is simply no excuse for systems/styles/whatever the fuck, getting in the way of a good performance against second division cannon fodder...
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lkhmffsstopmovingabout
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5 years ago

falcaos done nothing hernandez couldnt have done, neither are good enough
lkhm

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Alfonso Bedoya
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5 years ago

lkhmffsstopmovingabout wrote:falcaos done nothing hernandez couldnt have done, neither are good enough
Falcaos a lot better than Hernandez... still not sure if he's good enough, mind...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
Steggo
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5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:No Steggs... I'm not having that Mate... 4th is not a "bonus"... it's the bare minimum we should expect..
Yes,it is the bare minimum we have come to expect in normal times. But these are not normal times. And I agree that there is £millions of forward talent not functioning. But to be honest,the team,as a unit, is dire and no,there is no excuse for that performance against Cambridge,but I think the situation at United was far worse than Van Gaal envisaged and because he had a very late pre-season he made almost panic signings that do not,and will not fit in.However he should still be getting better results.As an aside does anyone have any idea why Jones is taking corners. Thats a cracking tactical ploy!
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