What are you listening to?

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pint vulger
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby pint vulger » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Fair dos I get that, at the risk ...................many years ago the lads at work organised a record club in the days when all the new fangled stereo systems appeared , Pint wanting to be one of the crowd ( your getting it) took in several of our fairly new collection only to be fucked off because they said all Pints records had a roaring fire in the background. I didn't get that until we bought our Bang and Olsen beocentre which we still have .
With that in mind I wouldn't insult you by offering a swop of our ' collection'

Love watching these Mark E Smith like blokes there is a couple ( not talented mind) in everyone of the ever dwindling pubs around the city.

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Sid
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:27 pm

It doesn't apply to Killing Joke, Fub. They went from post punk in the late 70s (ST) to more synth stuff in the 80s (Night Time) to rock in the 90s (Pandemonium) to metal in the 00s (second self titled etc) - being rough about it like. Lots of genres, lots of styles. Then throw in the Courtald Talks, the dub remixes, Coleman and Dudley Songs from the Victorious City, Coleman's classical work - they're people with many strings to their bow. Not one formula that works.

The Fall had a framework that Mark E Smith violently (ltierally, with the musicians) put on many songs over 20/30 years. And then the musicians, sometimes, were allowed to freestyle within that. But it had to be within it. And it was strict. If you veered off he would batter you, literally, hence the fascist dictator comparisons.

As John Peel said about em "Always different, always the same" or words to that effect

And yeah it int necessarily a bad thing. There's a posh word for it they use in film language, "auteur". It's just for me The Fall's auteur is far too restrictive. I'd have battered the fake socialist cunt as no doubt many of his band mates did or wanted to.

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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby FuB » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:42 pm

come on sid, I did qualify that with "especially their first three or four". I like that period of theirs a lot. I don't really care much for where they went afterwards. I know you're big into them so it wasn't meant to press your buttons... I think they had a very specific, distinctive and, well, "samey" sort of sound for those first early 80s albums. It isn't meant as a negative criticism. There also wasn't meant to be any direct comparison to The Fall, more an introduction to the "it's their sound" sort of argument
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Sid
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:05 pm

You didn't press my buttons I just come across as an aggressive cunt because I'm common. But I agree with you tbf that the first 3/4 records are similar in sound. It took 20 odd years for technology to progress enough for them to achieve the 'massive' sound they always wanted. Take Revelations, they wanted that to sound as big and loud and metal as the records did in 2000s. But they were working with spindly analogue tech, which IMO sounds a lot better. You probably think the same too as a fan of post punk. I love it me. I'd take it every day over digital stuff.

But even then I'd argue those first 3/4 records are as varied as The Fall's entire back catalogue. Listen to the drum patterns for one, there's lots of different feels that you just don't get with The Fall. You can hear the tribal ness they were trying to get going. I'd just much rather work within KJs framework than The Falls.

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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby FuB » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:48 pm

not sure I see that analogue tech was "spindly". They've spent fucking years trying to make digital tech sound analogue. I'd say that the problem they had throughout the 80s was the same as anyone else had: a sudden desire to make everything sound really clean and "perfect" (because, well, this was the digital age!) when, in the end, it was the limitations of analogue technology that lent music the sound that people are going out their way to try and find again.

regarding the tribal drumming. that's easily the thing that makes (well, made... since I think it's less fresh now than it would have been in 1980) them stand out for me. I recall you saying several pages back on this thread (fuck knows where or when) that you looked for lots of polyrhythmic drumming in music (as a drummer yourself) and I remember thinking at the time that this didn't really square with your love of Killing Joke. They are monorhythmic almost to the point of banality. Again, this isn't a negative criticism - I think that's the whole point and probably the best thing about their early stuff.
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:56 pm

Fub, imagine Sunn doing their bone rattling reverb on a 60s rock n roll analogue set up. It'd sound like someone shaking a biscuit tin. It would lose all its power.

For me analogue is good for 99% of contemporary tunes, but some things, no.

Yeah, well KJ have some great rhythms. But more often than not they have a jobbing drummer, and often (like on Democracy) they play a beat with a nice pattern and feel, but just repeated (Medicine Wheel, Aeon), whereas We Have Joy is a really good song to get stuck in to, as is Wardance, Death and Ressurection. Some nice fills and variation. Generally you need to be more involved in the creative process in order to contribute more creatively. And if you get a new drummer for every album cycle it's not really possible. But then live you can throw all different sorts of things in to make it more interesting and creative, and you see that with KJ not The Fall, because a controlling cunt like Mark E Smith will walk off stage.

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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:59 pm

Yeah, definitely agree about the push to make music sound perfect in the 80s. It's a load of shit. It sounds inhuman and boring. What is art without soul. Only the untalented uncreative bourgeoise are interested in that stuff. I need feeling and soul, poor people are full of it, it's why we're the driving force behind contemporary music. Everything that's new and good we came up with, like grime.

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Sid
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:12 pm

From twitter

‘the Fall’s contract to appear on Later with Jools Holland included a clause stipulating that under no circumstances was Holland to play “boogie-woogie piano anywhere near the Fall”’

:)) I hope that's true

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FuB
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby FuB » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:20 pm

To be fair, that's a stipulation that should be carried over to anywhere in the world along with a ban on his smug, hit-me face.

Re: Sunn O))... didn't they specifically name themselves after the 60s amp manufacturer due to how loud they are?!
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Re: What are you listening to?

Postby Sid » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:59 pm

That's deceiving because we're not on about 60s amps, we're on about 60s studios. The amps have always been loud, 60s rock n roll innit. But to capture Sunn at their bone rattling best you need a modern studio. That's what it's good for. A 60s analogue set up wouldn't get near it. Just the mics alone can't pick up half the depth of sound they can these days, from as many directions, and that's what Sunn need.

That is as good as recorded music can be, which compared to live is total and complete shite because tech can't capture the human experience because all tech is shite, factually

I'm not attacking analogue tech, Fub. No need to be defensive. Like I said I much prefer it to modern studio for most things.

I don't mind a bit of boogie woogie. The Fall could do with a bit on their tunes. Why not.


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