Plato, Aristotle, Socrates and us.

The original Den of Iniquity
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Sid
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3 years ago

For me its power, typically your relationship to the means of production. The employer and the employee are always at odd. And money, for the powerful have the dosh and with that the power, opportunities etc.

Liberals sit between the left and the right for me. They believe in the state and implimenting slightly less shit circumstances for us all. Not my cup of tea

I avoid people who say they're "culturally working class" because that's the hoardes of middle/uoper class kids at Oxbridge who come from wealth and power but dress in sports direct clothes, wavey garms, smoking roll ups, pretending to be from the Ends when really they're posh little shits who're going to be your future politicians, bankers aka people who shit on the working class. They fetishize the working class and they need leathering
Steggo
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3 years ago

Sid wrote:I avoid people who say they're "culturally working class" because that's the hoardes of middle/uoper class kids at Oxbridge who come from wealth and power but dress in sports direct clothes, wavey garms, smoking roll ups, pretending to be from the Ends when really they're posh little shits who're going to be your future politicians, bankers aka people who shit on the working class. They fetishize the working class and they need leathering
What you've seen is the 'town', not the 'gown' you insufferable oik. You should be sent 'down'.
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marlon
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3 years ago

Sid wrote:For me its power, typically your relationship to the means of production. The employer and the employee are always at odd. And money, for the powerful have the dosh and with that the power, opportunities etc.

Liberals sit between the left and the right for me. They believe in the state and implimenting slightly less shit circumstances for us all. Not my cup of tea

I avoid people who say they're "culturally working class" because that's the hoardes of middle/uoper class kids at Oxbridge who come from wealth and power but dress in sports direct clothes, wavey garms, smoking roll ups, pretending to be from the Ends when really they're posh little shits who're going to be your future politicians, bankers aka people who shit on the working class. They fetishize the working class and they need leathering
Agree with that, but I was thinking about it the other way around. Like people in white collar jobs being seen differently to those in blue collar jobs on the same wages. Seems like for some, there's a financial and cultural threshold to pass to be considered working class
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swampash
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3 years ago

Funnily enough I'm just reading 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist', which I'd recommend to any following this tread.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
Steggo
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swampash wrote:Funnily enough I'm just reading 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropist', which I'd recommend to any following this tread.
Very good book,re-read it myself a couple of years ago. The frightening thing is that despite the NHS, Welfare State etc, nothing has really changed. As Alf says in the 'Budget' thread 'Austerity for another 10 years??? Bollocks... this is now the norm... an entire generation will be born, and progress to adulthood, employment, knowing nothing else but these levels of "prosperity"... we're being conditioned to accept less, and not complain about it...

We're fucked!
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redzebs
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3 years ago

When were we ever not fucked? Someone older than me give me mainland England examples because it's different over here obviously.

Also, genuinely, and don't want a lecture or a debate, just giving my personal opinion, apart from the NHS which is my bug bearer, and not only that it's not funded properly but that's it's wastage is diabolical and all the staff I've dealt with in the last three years were actually shite, not stressed, not under funded, just shite at their jobs. Only help I've found really good has been far less paid staff in voluntary sector.

Anyway, give me mainland England examples because genuinely honestly, I've just told the truth and actually was a bit embarrassed at the start because I always worked and wasn't used to having to ask about benefits.

But fuck me, I honestly don't know how much more the Government could do for me, apart from send loads of NHS cunts back to medical school. But money wise, just being honest and admitting certain things are not a sign of weakness, I must say I've been very impressed and if I was to move home, I'd get my rent paid for me?

My mate was in a car accident, the same.

My friend is a single parent in a low to middle income job, the same.

Mental health is an area that needs improving massively locally I know that for sure but nationally, what's the no tax threshold up to now before you pay a penny, £13k? The 10% has gone years ago. Is this bad compared to other countries like France or Spain?

Is the screw job that the very richest use ways to pay little tax and stay very rich?

Is that the main issue? Because if it's not being looked after if ill or housing costs if ill or taxing the fuck out of the poor, I must just be very lucky because I've never seen it.

Like I know for ptsd or mental health or lots of other reasons, people would rather be homeless than stay somewhere temporarily but we've enough beds for every homeless person in the country to stay in for free with food and warmth.

Is it England really or parts of it that are fucked just?
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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3 years ago

Not sure what you're asking for examples for, Zebs

How long have/did you sign on for? How long were you on sick for?
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redzebs
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A year on waiting list, guaranteed what I consider a large sum one for at least another year and one indefinitely.

But then I was entitled when I was working and didn't claim so tbf I could be exception to the rule,

I'm just saying, NI has a long way to catch up on male mental health for example but you would never ever be homeless hungry or have a few quid if you were sick, Im just trying to understand why there's the need for all these food banks etc.

Where are the areas, like is it the North that's been left fucked? And people saying about London,

Right, I have 14 friends who have paid to move to London, all varying jobs and industries but not same social circles and still find it easy to get jobs and are all thriving and tbh all still partying (to different degrees and in different ways) but tbf the ones that moved the longest have all taken advantage of schemes that you can get mortgage wise that are unfairly handed out in London easier than here and other parts of the UK, like a mate in a half decent office job just paid big money for a one bedroom house which is about 25 mins on the tube to near the City but he is from a real working class area and just has good manners and isn't thick, he's not the diamond in the rough, and he had an IVA years ago ffs and rebuilt his credit, it just took time.

Like half this crowd are rockets compared to your standard Englander, but no matter their trade the pays obviously better and a load of them still have enough shillings left for the odd bit of smoke and gear and night out at Fabric once a month (that was a victory btw that deserves its own thread),

I read all the articles, but I have family that live in places that make council estates in England look like Buckingham Palace so I'm just trying to find the rise in food banks and bad budgets etc.

Apart from the rich ego dodge tax, right we all agree that's a piss take, what is it that you (as in plural) want specifically any government to do?

And this isn't a counter argument and I don't want statistics and news paper articles, I genuinely don't know any English mates (from England) or mates who are flocking in droves from here to England who go grrrr, fuckin UK is shite!!! And I've worked for and done stuff with lots of charities so I'm just trying to wrap my head around what people want bar getting the tax owed in from the rich rich ego aren't paying it and giving it to the NHS? Childcare costs and some more social housing would help but what else?

I've changed, and a lot of it is down to on here and growing up very fast with personal life with no choice but what's the main issue?

Areas with high unemployment? Is that the biggie? Because I know it's one of the lowest in Europe isn't it but it's skewed again North and South?

But why do there need to be people living on the streets and hungry when there are beds and food available and if someone is homeless and has mental health issues they are entitled to £ and help with housing?

Surely they should just prioritise these people which would include me if I didn't have family and make it less attractive to come and receive some of that pot bearing in mind the countries migrants have to cross to get here?

Why is Britain the most appealing country in the world to come to if you are even eligible and in the EU for example? Someone explain that please and help me understand?

Because I have a few friends who've come from places that are shit right, might even be here illegally right, but if my life was shit and I wanted a better life for my family I'd go where the going is good.

But why does someone settled elsewhere in the EU want to come all the way over here? Wages? Jobs? But I thought that was the problem?
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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redzebs
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3 years ago

Btw apparantly Apple thinks the word who is totally changeable naturally to ego so see above
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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Zebs, personal testiomy aka 'a few of my mates are alright' means jack compared to national trends, and national trends that are well reported and findable via google, show the number of people in various degrees of poverty has risen, work pays less, pay day lending is up, less kids are eating a meal a day, there’s less stable jobs, young people can’t afford to buy houses, suicides are up on welfare - the list goes on. And all while the rich get richer. These studies, research, testimonies, are real. Do you think they're lies because you personally can't see evidence of it?

I wonder how bad your estate or whatever is if you don’t see poverty. My estate looks like a warzone in places with burned down houses, abandoned streets, weeds growing through the roads, gangs etc. I’ll post pics when I get on my comp if you want proof. And my estate isn’t unique, it’s one of many here, in the north, in britain. It's evidence of neglect, poverty, class war fought by the government, by capitalism. How could anybody be anything but anti capitalist and anti state living there. Once you know, you know. People just need telling

And then here is an actual warzone at times thanks to guns and drugs. We had 4 stabbings and a shooting in 24 hours. The chrismas before last we had about 10 gun attacks in a couple of months. 3 people were shot in the street nextdoor, a bloke was shot in street next to dole. This shite isn’t made up. There’s a direct corrolation between violence increasing and poverty increasing. The less we have the more we fight amongst ourselves, when we should be fighting the cunts who’re doing it to us
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