Re: Manchester, and now London

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Lazarus
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1 year ago

I don't get it, if people are missing still then is it not reasonable to assume they died in the fire. Are they're estimates from the community of those missing. I've never seen as much mystery over the numbers of dead in any previous tragedy. Something isn't right about all this, in the days after the fire people were talking about 150 or more dead but now it's gone really quiet and the press have backed off.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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1 year ago

Lazarus wrote:
I don't get it, if people are missing still then is it not reasonable to assume they died in the fire. Are they're estimates from the community of those missing. I've never seen as much mystery over the numbers of dead in any previous tragedy. Something isn't right about all this, in the days after the fire people were talking about 150 or more dead but now it's gone really quiet and the press have backed off.
If everyone in a particular flat is killed, then there won't be anyone alive to say how many people were in it... and because this tower block was full of immigrants, then there's a good chance of some of those flats having a lot of people in them, who won't even been known outside of the flat itself...

On top of that, like Lammy said, this happened during Ramadan, so it's possible that some of the flats could have even had 20/30/40 people in them, coming together from other parts of the neighbourhood... and again, possibly without anyone alive to claim them missing...

Fatty's right... it could be hundreds... and Lammy's right, that if it is hundreds, then the authorities would prefer that to come out later rather than sooner, after the people have calmed down a bit, and the nations media had moved onto other things... I can see the authorities leaking out updates when other major news would keep it off the front page...
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Lazarus
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1 year ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Lazarus wrote:
I don't get it, if people are missing still then is it not reasonable to assume they died in the fire. Are they're estimates from the community of those missing. I've never seen as much mystery over the numbers of dead in any previous tragedy. Something isn't right about all this, in the days after the fire people were talking about 150 or more dead but now it's gone really quiet and the press have backed off.
If everyone in a particular flat is killed, then there won't be anyone alive to say how many people were in it... and because this tower block was full of immigrants, then there's a good chance of some of those flats having a lot of people in them, who won't even been known outside of the flat itself...

On top of that, like Lammy said, this happened during Ramadan, so it's possible that some of the flats could have even had 20/30/40 people in them, coming together from other parts of the neighbourhood... and again, possibly without anyone alive to claim them missing...

Fatty's right... it could be hundreds... and Lammy's right, that if it is hundreds, then the authorities would prefer that to come out later rather than sooner, after the people have calmed down a bit, and the nations media had moved onto other things... I can see the authorities leaking out updates when other major news would keep it off the front page...

Ok but the people who could be dead had to live somewhere, pay rent, do a job, they have to eat, noone lives in complete isolation. Also if this was a murder enquiry they'd use cctv, and i'm sure that those flats are well watched, to track who was entering or leaving the building. Surely someone in the community has set up an alternative resident led office where they are trying to work this confusion out because they know not to trust the government or council. They must have an estimate of the missing.

Was just listening to some residents on 5 live, the community is ANGRY and traumatised. Talking about a teenage girl who was talking to her friend on her phone as she died and how the girl hasn't slept since. Heartbreaking.
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Sid
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1 year ago

Aye you can work out roughly how many people were in there based on how many apartments there were, so about 400-600 people. So then if you count up how many survivors have been put into emergency accommodation in gyms, with friends and hotels then you would get a rough estimate of how many are missing presumed dead. You'd at least know whether it was in the region of 70 or 150 or 250.

This is a basic thing all journos should be doing but like Laz says they're strangely quiet on the subject. So the fact no cunt has come out with this suggests it's going to be in the 100s not 150...

The fire was hot enough to burn entire bodies by the sounds of it. And it burned for nearly 24 hours. So there will be trouble giving an exact figure because there might not be any remains left. But still, it's possible to work out a rough estimate yet nobody is willing.

I saw inside one of the rooms and everything but the washing machine was gone. Cupboards, kettles, bins, mirrors - gone. The firemen said the people they rescued who'd come down from the top floors were almost on fire it was so hot, as in when the temp is that hot skin, muscle, tissue combusts without even touching a flame.

One horrific detail is that the smoke might not have killed them first because the fire spread on the outside via the cladding, so a lot of the smoke was on the outside too. So it could have been the heat that got them, you're talking people catching fire as their possession catch fire too. You can't even think about it really, it's just too horrific.

It's just the worst event to happen in britain for a long long fucking time. It's scarecly fucking comprehendable.
fat maradona
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1 year ago

Aye, it's a fucking horror story alright but not one you'd expect in a leading first world country.

The problem is, no one knows who was in the flats. Those that weren't can, obviously, be accounted for. It's all those people that were visiting and can't be traced to the flats. Or all the illegals that will never be reported as missing. The actual number will be a sickeningly high one, a tragedy that should never have happened to this magnitude.
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Sid
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1 year ago

"all the illegals" hmmm

I read the main reason they can't give an exact number is because some of the flats were subletted numerous times to the point where no cunt knew who was in there and tracing the landlords has been difficult. Some of the landlord cunts had split 2 bedroom flats in two 2 so they could charge 2 rents. I doubt they'll have given much thought to fire safety when they did it which might explain why some of them aren't quick in coming forward.
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Alfonso Bedoya
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1 year ago

I keep hearing this, "we may never know how many died"... I think that's bollocks... when the twin towers came down, the crushing weight of thousands of tons of concrete pulverized bone and flesh, and then you can understand the problem of identifying... but this was just fire... I don't say that without understanding the horror, but my point is, the remains of the dead will still be in tact... that was no doubt an inferno, but I don't believe it incinerated bone... it'll be a horrible, soul destroying job, but I'm positive they can count the dead...

I think the statements they're making are all about managing peoples anger by controlling information...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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Sid
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1 year ago

From inside K&C townhall
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Sid
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1 year ago

120 high rises have failed fire safety tests. Every single one they've tested so far has failed. Cheap shite materials used on working class peoples homes. Guaranteed some schools will fail the tests as well.
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Sid
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1 year ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:I keep hearing this, "we may never know how many died"... I think that's bollocks... when the twin towers came down, the crushing weight of thousands of tons of concrete pulverized bone and flesh, and then you can understand the problem of identifying... but this was just fire... I don't say that without understanding the horror, but my point is, the remains of the dead will still be in tact... that was no doubt an inferno, but I don't believe it incinerated bone... it'll be a horrible, soul destroying job, but I'm positive they can count the dead...

I think the statements they're making are all about managing peoples anger by controlling information...
Tbf you're right, Alf. If they can find em in the world trade centres they can find them in this. There's talk on twitter and around Grenfell of 300 missing. If so then they're definitely trying to manage the situation to prevent an outpouring of emotion and anger.

This inquiry they're setting up is another government whitewash n all. Even the judge is basically saying don't get excited https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... moore-bick
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