Brexit

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redzebs
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1 year ago

Sid wrote:No my opinion isn't that it has to get bad before it gets worse, it's that it's going to get bad and stay bad because the tories are right wing cunts who're fucking everybody in the arse on a regular basis

They've just implimented welfare cuts that have taken the cars aka the lifelines off 51,000 disabled people - that's the ones that haven't committed suicide. And we're relying on these cunts to give us decent brexit - these cunts who've closed the vital services? Plunged millions more into poverty? Saddled 18 year olds with 60 grand debt? Privatised the NHS? Not gonna fucking happen
What's the cars bit about, my dad has mobility problems but has been bad since being in hospital after smashing his hip and femur but he's up and about again, he just got a letter saying he could have a mobility car, my uncles got one too, I thought if you qualified for pip you were near guaranteed one? He's looking at fuckin audis and he was only a civil servant. Be the nicest car he'll ever own will be his first one, I don't know anyone off the top of my head that's been turned down here that was genuine. Fuck I hope direct rule doesn't land us with all your shite, fuck paying for prescriptions for a start, be fucking fleeced!

I think it's just England that's getting fuckin stitched up Sid, always ask Bri if Wales is the same as us and we have no jocks but from what I heard they were better off again when it came to unis etc........

I did hear a story today that pissed me off that you'll maybe agree with, it was a guy diagnosed with throat cancer, he's set up a charity because all girls now get injected with the hbv I think it is which can help prevent cancer and also prevent a raft of other sexual diseases and illlnesses.

So he asked for boys to be given it to and for monetary reasons was told no because the herd will eventually just mate it into everyone, and he's like you could rid the country of certain cancers by 2030 but because you won't factor in that some boys won't be that sexually active, some might be unable to be, some might be gay and some might end up with a bird from abroad.

Also I'm thinking that's really irresponsible as surely that's promoting unsafe sex isn't it?

See if you gave me specifics like that I would be able to relate rather than just firing out a load of statistics which you assume apply to the majority on the forum but they probably don't.

But like I said, eventually if it stays bad they'll eventually get voted out and whether cruel or not to what seems to be happening to part of the country now, your next labour government will have enough money surely to make all the changes people will want no? After a period of tough austerity and once we stop spunking out so much to the EU.

Also why the fuck is it only us the Greeks and Albania paying the promised amount into NATO. Can we not bail on that as well and do a much smaller deal or spend it on updating the armed services we have to a decent but not ridiculous standard then if the worst cams to the worst we are just a handy ally of genuinely needed?

I'd relook at that foreign aid budget too and start spreading it where it's needed instead of nucleur armed countries to curry favour.


See, civilised debate.
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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1 year ago

I'm not firing loads of satistics at you. I've given you specifics. Google the disability cars. Ask one of the millions of students who're not paying £9250 in tuition fees. These are real easily findable well known things. Sounds to me like you're sceptical because you're quite partial to a bit of tory rule. I aren't disputing this shite when it's real, it's happening, and it's unfair.

Point is these are the cunts that are implimenting welfare cuts and policy that they know, and admit, kill hundreds of people a year - so hoping that these evil cunts are going to give us the working class a decent brexit deal is a fucking pipe dream. They don't even want us to read book at libraries, working parents to have enough to pay the bills let alone decent employment rights ffs

Tories are cunts and cunts do cunty things. Brexit gives them the power to do a lot more cunty things, and it'll be us that lose out as per
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Alfonso Bedoya
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1 year ago

Sid wrote:
marlon wrote:http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/04 ... power-grab
And we've got a government who openly yearns for a return to the good old days of imperialism.
"What does this all mean? It means that nearly half a century of workers rights, environmental standards, health and safety laws, consumer protections, animal rights, and countless other areas are now at the mercy of Conservative ministers, who can use a rainy Friday afternoon, when everyone is down the pub, to finally start rubbing out bits of law they never liked.

"All we have to stop them are their promises. They promise not to misuse these powers. They promise to maintain workers' rights. They promise to only use the statutory instruments for a limited Brexit-related purpose. But when you ask them what structures they are putting in place to stop them from doing so, there is a deafening silence."

This is the crux of it. Voting to leave the EU under a tory government meant putting a shitload of power back into their hands, and they're proven to be vicious, nasty, brutal pieces of shit. This won't end well for us.
Absolutely right... but if we let them get away with it, then we deserve it... we CAN stop them if we decide to...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
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marlon
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1 year ago

redzebs wrote: Well the difference is if we hated what the EU did we couldn't do anything about it, now, it might need to get bad before it gets worse in your opinion, but now, there's a big buffer of non Brussels bound £ to fuck up with until Labour come up with a policy that doesn't involve borrowing more debt, and once they do, the people and they will if they want to, be able to vote them back in.
http://theconversation.com/explainer-wh ... eory-72095

Might want to have a read of this. Basically suggests government debt for countries like ours is fine and shouldn't influence policy. Which makes austerity idealogical - the tories are making cuts for no reason other than their own pleasure.

Also, can't find the link now, but our private debt is a much bigger problem than government debt. And whatever growth we've had since the crash has been fuelled by an increase in private debt and all the benefits have gone to the top.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ry-surplus
"So there has to be debt. And debt has to be owed to someone. Let us refer to this group collectively as “rich people”, since most of them are. If the government runs up a lot of debt, that means rich people hold a lot of government bonds, which pay quite low rates of interest; the government taxes you to pay them off. If the government pays off its debt, what it’s basically doing is transferring that debt directly to you, as mortgage debt, credit card debt, payday loans, and so on. Of course the money is still owed to the same rich people. But now those rich people can collect much higher rates of interest.....There were three times in recent decades when the government ran a surplus: Note how each surplus is followed, within a certain number of years, by an equal and opposite recession."


If we make it to the next election with the public still believing the tories can be trusted on the economy, the media and labour party will have failed massively. You don't even have to talk about economic theories, you can literally see services fail all around us and there's no justification.
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redzebs
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1 year ago

Sid wrote:I'm not firing loads of satistics at you. I've given you specifics. Google the disability cars. Ask one of the millions of students who're not paying £9250 in tuition fees. These are real easily findable well known things. Sounds to me like you're sceptical because you're quite partial to a bit of tory rule. I aren't disputing this shite when it's real, it's happening, and it's unfair.

Point is these are the cunts that are implimenting welfare cuts and policy that they know, and admit, kill hundreds of people a year - so hoping that these evil cunts are going to give us the working class a decent brexit deal is a fucking pipe dream. They don't even want us to read book at libraries, working parents to have enough to pay the bills let alone decent employment rights ffs

Tories are cunts and cunts do cunty things. Brexit gives them the power to do a lot more cunty things, and it'll be us that lose out as per
Yeah I've read it, yeah I had to fill those forms in for my dad and sit with him through the assessor, the problem is it's private firms paid to carry out the assessments, ex public sector staff loads of them,

Tbf Sid you are right in what you are saying but there is context there, there's 71,000 more mobility cars on the road now than when it was first launched so that figure you will have will account hot attrition, a genuine change in circumstances and now I think about it two relatives did have to appeal and then won, so if you get a decision that's negative then you can get someone out to show them that it's worse than how it might sound on a form, will there be fuck ups? Of course, but as I say maybe, I've only saw Capita at work, they fucked up the first appointment and went next door and I guess if you don't have a younger person/relative to help you it must be very difficult for say a single elderly person.

But like I said, there is context, you need to have it if you are to be taking seriously otherwise you just end up getting into proper left v Farage shouting match and headlines.

On Uni fees, I think you ignored me back then,

I showed you that our main Uni, Queens, still one of the best in the UK, our fees are a bit lower but if you're from the Republican of Ireland they are lower again, if you are from the EU or abroad they are about half price again but if you're from England then they are the highest even though some guy from Newcastle is further away than Dublin,

I don't know mate, like I keep asking and keep answering all of your points with real life examples, I don't know why England gets ripped off the post, but I've a UK passport and your local uni would probably be cheaper for me than you so, you can dig deeper, does each Uni have to allow in so many eu non eu other parts of the uk to hit a quota or something? There'll be something to it.

Libraries? Local Librairies? Libraries in rural areas? My local library closed because nobody fuckin used it even when they put internet in, but the main ones in town are open and our local primary school got a new library for adults and a sports complex you can hire say for footie to subsidise the facilities.

I just find it very misleading when I see a lot of headlines without the actual facts and how much of the UK is afffected, because there's obviously certain areas need more help than others.

But I'm not trying to be argumentative just understand what your talking about because I've literally experienced the mobility scheme first hand twice in the last week,

But when I did give you an example of Government funding being denied in the hope that girls would eventually sleep with enough boys to make them immune to certain diseases but the gay community was fucked as was any boy who catches a preventative illness before he becomes sexually active and you can't even see I try to be balanced and I get outraged once I know the specifics or have seen personal first hand footage/knowledge of it.
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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redzebs
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1 year ago

marlon wrote:
redzebs wrote: Well the difference is if we hated what the EU did we couldn't do anything about it, now, it might need to get bad before it gets worse in your opinion, but now, there's a big buffer of non Brussels bound £ to fuck up with until Labour come up with a policy that doesn't involve borrowing more debt, and once they do, the people and they will if they want to, be able to vote them back in.
http://theconversation.com/explainer-wh ... eory-72095

Might want to have a read of this. Basically suggests government debt for countries like ours is fine and shouldn't influence policy. Which makes austerity idealogical - the tories are making cuts for no reason other than their own pleasure.

Also, can't find the link now, but our private debt is a much bigger problem than government debt. And whatever growth we've had since the crash has been fuelled by an increase in private debt and all the benefits have gone to the top.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ry-surplus
"So there has to be debt. And debt has to be owed to someone. Let us refer to this group collectively as “rich people”, since most of them are. If the government runs up a lot of debt, that means rich people hold a lot of government bonds, which pay quite low rates of interest; the government taxes you to pay them off. If the government pays off its debt, what it’s basically doing is transferring that debt directly to you, as mortgage debt, credit card debt, payday loans, and so on. Of course the money is still owed to the same rich people. But now those rich people can collect much higher rates of interest.....There were three times in recent decades when the government ran a surplus: Note how each surplus is followed, within a certain number of years, by an equal and opposite recession."


If we make it to the next election with the public still believing the tories can be trusted on the economy, the media and labour party will have failed massively. You don't even have to talk about economic theories, you can literally see services fail all around us and there's no justification.

No what you are saying makes sense and is what caused the global housing market crash, it's a basic Marxist principle taken forward past what he saw, the change of the working class during the industrial revolution because you need the p,tat to work in your factory's 12 hours a day to earn x which is spent buying things which eventually feed up to Mr Y who is of the bg class and needs to buy your manufactured products and as long as there's enough people to work the shifts and the demands are there on all sides then round and round it goes but when that evolves into capitalism and the very very rich have more money they can spend then they lend it to you so you can now also work 12 hours and buy things which feed up to Mr Y and also pay Mr Z who owns the bank that lent the interest plus capital you've borrowed to own a property off Mr Ws firm who built them using Mr Xs goods which you spend all day making.

I get the principle in what your saying but in the principle itself it's still better to have no debt on the government because they can lower taxes which was always the difference in the first place, tax and borrow more but run the country better so people don't need to earn as much or tax less and let someone decide what to spend their money on, banking that their will always be someone smart enough to break the glass ceiling therefore everyone has a chance mentality rather than a comfier life and an us and them but everything's working and the lifghts are still on mentality but it doesn't change the fact that still to this day only from what have I seen and to the little I've read, have a few of the Sandavian countries got something that most people seem to have the best opportunity at a good life with a social balance with the opportunity of capital advancement.

I.e. It doesn't fuckin matter who's in charge, you'll either get taxed less and you can fend for yourself more of your government can borrow and tax you more but I'll doubt if you'll see a massive change in your lifestyle.

The worlds too small now, people are distant, you maybe know your neighbours but when was the last time you went round for a cup of tea? Two old solutions to a problem no one has yet to fully solve.

Would I think I'd be much better if with Corbyn? Well speaking honestly, as an NI Unionisf ie I'd rather chuck my lot in with the UK, that's with no disrespect to the ROI who don't want us anyway but would I feel more secure of being looked after any better under a direct rule labour government if we fail to form an agreement? No, and that's why Sid calls me a Tory, it's because he doesn't see that for my situation, with the extra benefits and funding and anything else we need and have always been given in my own personal experience at still a relatively young age, I think I'll be more economically stable. If I move to Middlesbrough or Bootle for a few years ask me again, Laz will tell you different from me based on his experiences, that's why I'm always saying you can't whack down a headline, no one can and kick off like fuck and expect everyone to understand.

Do you know what the massive ticket scandal is over here in sport today? Seriously? The Irish Cup final at the refurbished Windsor Park?

Adult tickets are going up to £20 from £15, now I know there's a matter of perspective but I mean people were going fuckin nuts, kids are still a tenner. I wonder how much the Welsh Leagues Cup Final is if it's at Cardiff, or an Old Firm cup Final at Hamden? I'd say they'd be happy with a Score?

So you can't start calling people fuckin this and that because the system affects them differently. It's alright, wait until I move to London, then maybe I'll finally agree it's shite for young people but I can't see it!
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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redzebs
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1 year ago

Belfast and Brum biggest benefits areas of Britain Sid.
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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1 year ago

redzebs wrote:
Sid wrote:I'm not firing loads of satistics at you. I've given you specifics. Google the disability cars. Ask one of the millions of students who're not paying £9250 in tuition fees. These are real easily findable well known things. Sounds to me like you're sceptical because you're quite partial to a bit of tory rule. I aren't disputing this shite when it's real, it's happening, and it's unfair.

Point is these are the cunts that are implimenting welfare cuts and policy that they know, and admit, kill hundreds of people a year - so hoping that these evil cunts are going to give us the working class a decent brexit deal is a fucking pipe dream. They don't even want us to read book at libraries, working parents to have enough to pay the bills let alone decent employment rights ffs

Tories are cunts and cunts do cunty things. Brexit gives them the power to do a lot more cunty things, and it'll be us that lose out as per
Yeah I've read it, yeah I had to fill those forms in for my dad and sit with him through the assessor, the problem is it's private firms paid to carry out the assessments, ex public sector staff loads of them,

Tbf Sid you are right in what you are saying but there is context there, there's 71,000 more mobility cars on the road now than when it was first launched so that figure you will have will account hot attrition, a genuine change in circumstances and now I think about it two relatives did have to appeal and then won, so if you get a decision that's negative then you can get someone out to show them that it's worse than how it might sound on a form, will there be fuck ups? Of course, but as I say maybe, I've only saw Capita at work, they fucked up the first appointment and went next door and I guess if you don't have a younger person/relative to help you it must be very difficult for say a single elderly person.

But like I said, there is context, you need to have it if you are to be taking seriously otherwise you just end up getting into proper left v Farage shouting match and headlines.

On Uni fees, I think you ignored me back then,

I showed you that our main Uni, Queens, still one of the best in the UK, our fees are a bit lower but if you're from the Republican of Ireland they are lower again, if you are from the EU or abroad they are about half price again but if you're from England then they are the highest even though some guy from Newcastle is further away than Dublin,

I don't know mate, like I keep asking and keep answering all of your points with real life examples, I don't know why England gets ripped off the post, but I've a UK passport and your local uni would probably be cheaper for me than you so, you can dig deeper, does each Uni have to allow in so many eu non eu other parts of the uk to hit a quota or something? There'll be something to it.

Libraries? Local Librairies? Libraries in rural areas? My local library closed because nobody fuckin used it even when they put internet in, but the main ones in town are open and our local primary school got a new library for adults and a sports complex you can hire say for footie to subsidise the facilities.

I just find it very misleading when I see a lot of headlines without the actual facts and how much of the UK is afffected, because there's obviously certain areas need more help than others.

But I'm not trying to be argumentative just understand what your talking about because I've literally experienced the mobility scheme first hand twice in the last week,

But when I did give you an example of Government funding being denied in the hope that girls would eventually sleep with enough boys to make them immune to certain diseases but the gay community was fucked as was any boy who catches a preventative illness before he becomes sexually active and you can't even see I try to be balanced and I get outraged once I know the specifics or have seen personal first hand footage/knowledge of it.
This is the crux of it. You don't believe something unless you see it with your own eyes. Like grammar schools, if I were to show you the governments own statistics about how they benefit affluent families not working class ones, you'd probably say something like 'well I had a mate who went to one and his dad drove a banger, so...'

Marlon's post is bang on. The cuts are ideological. I know a trainee social worker whose had to study the law and the stuff that's about poverty is written in fucking 19th century english. It's a horrorshow. That's their mentality, they want to bring back the victorian days.
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redzebs
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1 year ago

Nah but if you are a smart cookie in NI no matter if your family are on the breadline, the level of education available is probably the best in the U.K, you always do this Sid, you go aye well you're just using one or two examples etc etc

Like when everyone was saying working class youngsters would find it hard to move to London, I now have sixteen, actually can't wait for a Stag soon to see loads of them, mates from Northern Ireland who moved over, got a job and have a fuckin amazing life in London. That's not well my mates dad driving an anything,

If anything it's a testament maybe that people from here seem to be wanted and assimilate wherever they go.

And you're talking about benefit cuts and this and that estate, I've just told you that Brum and Belfast are the two too places in the U.K. receiving benefits,

hence do you think that's why some of the horror stories I hear seem hard to get my head around because any areas you describe like that I've experienced are nearly all divided on religious grounds.

It's not a who's right and who's wrong, it's a, well it's because they are from X and it's different there.

As I've said before, lot of angry people railing against all these selfish politicians, a) no wonder you're fucked off and b) I'm surprised there isn't more jealously towards other parts of the United Kingdom that get looked after £££ wise when you're all paying for your prescriptions, paying higher Uni fees, have much worse crime statistics.

But it's also a bit of a fuckin insult and a slap in the face to just basically ring fence off London and a lot of the South and run the country up to the Scottish border and say they are doing this and that to us. Well London The South Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland aren't irrelevant, we are still part of "us".

Not our fault!
Well I suppose that's the knighthood fucked.
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Sid
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1 year ago

redzebs wrote:And you're talking about benefit cuts and this and that estate, I've just told you that Brum and Belfast are the two too places in the U.K. receiving benefits,

hence do you think that's why some of the horror stories I hear seem hard to get my head around because any areas you describe like that I've experienced are nearly all divided on religious grounds.

It's not a who's right and who's wrong, it's a, well it's because they are from X and it's different there.
I don't get what the significance is of Brum and Belfast being two of the highest places recieving benefits?

The horror stories are actually national stats and trends that are in the rags every day aren't personal testimony. They're facts that are the results of analysis and research - some of which is carried out by the government. They keep tabs on everything so they know what's going on and what the impact of their laws, policy etc is. So for instance they know their actions have resulted in higher suicides on welfare, their work with the homeless has resulted in a doubling or triplng of people out on the streets, their cuts have resulted in more kids being plunged into poverty and worse life chances - and all this shit is finable directly from the government because it comes from their own research. It also chimes with indepedent research (think tanks, charities) as well as personal testimony.

Is this what you're on about or am I miles off?
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