Brexit

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Sid
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1 year ago

It's great this, watching the tories pull themselves apart
sheesh
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1 year ago

FuB wrote:
1 year ago
yeah... and let's say Labour get in... now they have fuck all time to get their feet under the table, negotiate through Brexit and spend the rest of history being the party that fucked Brexit up.

... almost as if that's what the tories would want.
I highly doubt that. Brexit has led to different parts of the UK feeling increasingly disconnected from London, particularly Scotland and northern Ireland. That's on the Conservatives, and it's also on them that there was even a referendum in the first place.

Our relationship with the EU is a sideshow. Brexit is, and always has been, about settling an internal party squabble. Labour haven't exactly covered themselves in glory, though. They were complicit in voting with the government to invoke article 50, for example. That was pretty fucking dumb.

I hope there will be a second referendum, and people will make an intelligent decision this time round. We are lurking towards disaster, otherwise.
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Sid
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1 year ago

Labour respected the referendum result, Sheesh. They had to.

You have to remember we've had 20 years of british rags who're basically all right wing, raging about the EU, filling peoples heads with shitloads of misinformation about how they want to stop us drinking english ale, they want to stop you singing ba ba black sheep because they're all "politically correct" "do gooders", they're ruining british businesses because of red tape etc to the point where we were all massive uninformed about what our relationship with the EU was. This narrative that we were constantly being robbed by them is well established, when in reality they often gave us the concession because we were constantly fucking whinging. So they gave us bits to make us feel special and placate us. But now I think people are a bit more clear about what the EU trade stuff is all about. The result might be different next time around. But still there's been no proper economic argument put forward, steeped in actual analysis of capitalism (mainly neoliberalism & globalisation), to answer the questions from those who've seen industry and prosperity move abroad. So there'll still be some who're vehemently anti EU.
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Lazarus
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1 year ago

The irony that we're all supposed to be afraid of the Red under the bed that is Corbyn but what about Aaron Banks????
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
sheesh
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1 year ago

Sid, Parliament voted on the Article 50 bill on 1 Feb 2017. Corbyn imposed a 3-line whip to ensure that the Labour party supported the government.

Theresa May delivered a speech on 17 January 2017 setting out her priorities for negotiating Brexit. In that speech, she made clear that her intention was that we would be leaving the Single Market and Customs Union. Where did she get the mandate to take us out of the Single Market and Customs Union? From the referendum vote? No. The ballot paper only gave two options: remain or leave. There was nothing on the ballot paper about the implementation of Brexit. Nothing about taking away my right to freely travel, study or work anywhere else in the EU.

A lot of people voted leave beacuse they're racist cunts. Other people voted leave because they wanted us to stay out of the political union of the EU, but have the economic benefits (i.e - by being members of the Single Market and Customs Union). Others wanted a clean break. The fuckers who campaigned for leave went on record stating that we could leave the EU and stay in the Single Market. Everyone had different reasons, which is why May's 'will of the people' phrase is total bullshit. Leave could mean any number of things.



So where did Theresa May get the mandate to go for a nuclear Brexit? Also, what economic impact assessments had the Government done and produced to Parliament to show that this was a viable option for the country? The Government didn't even want Parliament to get a vote on Article 50. Knowing all this, Corbyn and his party should have been on the Government's arse hard from the very outset, not giving it a helping hand.

I'm mainly (and will forever be) pissed off at the Tory party, but I'm also pissed off at the Labour party, because the Tories have been lying every step of the way and they have been allowed to get away with it. Also, where there is independent, objective evidence (from people who are paid to do the sums) that Brexit is going to cause monumental damage, that surely massively outweighs everything.

Now we're at the stage where the hard right scum in the Tory party are going to cannibalise the Government to meet their own selfish, ideologically-backward, deeply corrupt ends.

We have companies like Siemens, Airbus and Jaguar Land Rover openly saying that they're considering pulling investments out of the UK - thousands of jobs are at risk. The hard right nutters don't give a shit about any of this. We need all opposition parties (and anyone with a brain and heart) to act like an opposition in order to put an end to this madness.
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Lazarus
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1 year ago

sheesh wrote:
1 year ago
Sid, Parliament voted on the Article 50 bill on 1 Feb 2017. Corbyn imposed a 3-line whip to ensure that the Labour party supported the government.

Theresa May delivered a speech on 17 January 2017 setting out her priorities for negotiating Brexit. In that speech, she made clear that her intention was that we would be leaving the Single Market and Customs Union. Where did she get the mandate to take us out of the Single Market and Customs Union? From the referendum vote? No. The ballot paper only gave two options: remain or leave. There was nothing on the ballot paper about the implementation of Brexit. Nothing about taking away my right to freely travel, study or work anywhere else in the EU.

A lot of people voted leave beacuse they're racist cunts. Other people voted leave because they wanted us to stay out of the political union of the EU, but have the economic benefits (i.e - by being members of the Single Market and Customs Union). Others wanted a clean break. The fuckers who campaigned for leave went on record stating that we could leave the EU and stay in the Single Market. Everyone had different reasons, which is why May's 'will of the people' phrase is total bullshit. Leave could mean any number of things.



So where did Theresa May get the mandate to go for a nuclear Brexit? Also, what economic impact assessments had the Government done and produced to Parliament to show that this was a viable option for the country? The Government didn't even want Parliament to get a vote on Article 50. Knowing all this, Corbyn and his party should have been on the Government's arse hard from the very outset, not giving it a helping hand.

I'm mainly (and will forever be) pissed off at the Tory party, but I'm also pissed off at the Labour party, because the Tories have been lying every step of the way and they have been allowed to get away with it. Also, where there is independent, objective evidence (from people who are paid to do the sums) that Brexit is going to cause monumental damage, that surely massively outweighs everything.

Now we're at the stage where the hard right scum in the Tory party are going to cannibalise the Government to meet their own selfish, ideologically-backward, deeply corrupt ends.

We have companies like Siemens, Airbus and Jaguar Land Rover openly saying that they're considering pulling investments out of the UK - thousands of jobs are at risk. The hard right nutters don't give a shit about any of this. We need all opposition parties (and anyone with a brain and heart) to act like an opposition in order to put an end to this madness.
I know you haven't but you make this sound like you've just found out..... This is exactly what some of us were saying right from the start, it was madness then and it's madness now. In fact we've a bit to go before it's as bad as i think it will go.

If you;ve time go back and read this thread from the start.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
sheesh
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1 year ago

Just to be clear, I voted remain. I knew that Brexit would be a bad choice, even if we went for soft Brexit.

That said, even though the outcome of the vote turned out the way it did, I still thought the government would take a pragmatic view, respect the closeness of the result, think about the economy, etc.

I'm trying to make the point that Corbyn and the Labour Party don't get off scot free, even if this is primarily a Tory instigated problem.
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Sid
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1 year ago

sheesh wrote:
1 year ago
Just to be clear, I voted remain. I knew that Brexit would be a bad choice, even if we went for soft Brexit.

That said, even though the outcome of the vote turned out the way it did, I still thought the government would take a pragmatic view, respect the closeness of the result, think about the economy, etc.

I'm trying to make the point that Corbyn and the Labour Party don't get off scot free, even if this is primarily a Tory instigated problem.
Yeah totally. I don't want to absolve labour of any blame. I think in recent months they've gone off point as they try and appeal to the middle class. I was talking about labour respecting the referendum result, not those who sought a second referendum just because they lost - not because they object to the single market or the customs union.
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marlon
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1 year ago

May obviously has no mandate for a hard brexit, but is there really much support for a soft brexit? Worse than what we have and with none of the benefits promised by the leavers. The only reason you'd do it, is to say you've followed the will of the people etc. and no one gets what they want (which seems like Labour's policy?). It looks like we're heading towards no deal/v hard brexit with both parties suporting leave. The only way to stop it is no brexit at all, but it seems like Corbyn (and half his MPs) want to leave, so we're screwed.
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FuB
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1 year ago

sheesh wrote:
1 year ago
FuB wrote:
1 year ago
yeah... and let's say Labour get in... now they have fuck all time to get their feet under the table, negotiate through Brexit and spend the rest of history being the party that fucked Brexit up.

... almost as if that's what the tories would want.
I highly doubt that. Brexit has led to different parts of the UK feeling increasingly disconnected from London, particularly Scotland and northern Ireland. That's on the Conservatives, and it's also on them that there was even a referendum in the first place.

Our relationship with the EU is a sideshow. Brexit is, and always has been, about settling an internal party squabble. Labour haven't exactly covered themselves in glory, though. They were complicit in voting with the government to invoke article 50, for example. That was pretty fucking dumb.

I hope there will be a second referendum, and people will make an intelligent decision this time round. We are lurking towards disaster, otherwise.
yes, sorry... there was no intention to seriously invoke a conspiracy theory. however, it's not been unusual throughout history for the tories to fuck things up so much that the subsequent labour government needs to make difficult decisions, borrow heavily, blah blah... all for the subsequent tory government to demonise them over and conveniently ignore the fuckups they made beforehand.

there will never be a second referendum. too much egg is already on enough faces for anyone to ever admit they were wrong. none of them would ever admit they were wrong even if things were going smoothly.

I've been on holiday in France and elsewhere in Italy this last week and I met Leave supporters who are expats and STILL want Brexit. People who live in France and think Farage has something to say...think that Luxembourg-based bureaucrats are running Europe for their own ends and none of the member states has any autocracy at all. They left the UK due to and because of all the positives that the EU offers and want the UK to leave it. They are disgusted by the supposed runaway immigration that the EU is supposedly allowing yet ARE FUCKING IMMIGRANTS THEMSELVES!

Forget all the reasonable people with specific reasons for voting leave... there were also a shitload of complete fucking idiots involved in this farce.
I may be able to fix a forum but I can't fix a fuckwit
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