martial watch

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dozer
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1 year ago

Martial still hasn't returned from training. But since his lack of professionalism is against Jose, does that make it okay?
I guess it does because he has bags of ability - still the manager's fault he's crap I suppose.
People mention Ronaldo being given opportunities; that's probably because the manager saw him train like a machine every day.
Who'll play Martial, who probably mopes the whole day?
He's useless.
Steggo
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1 year ago

marlon wrote:
1 year ago
Post-Fergie signings:
(-23) Shaw, Martial, Memphis, Pogba, Bailly, Lindelof
(24-27) Mata, Fellaini, di Maria, Herrera, Rojo, Blind, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Mkhitaryan, Lukaku
(28-) Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic, Matic, Sanchez

As far as I can see, there's no pattern of success or failure based on age or experience.
Thats a very pertinent observation Marlon. Dozers assumptions about Martial leaves out one vital element-the manager. We all know how Mourinho is with players as was Van Gaal and Moyes and Fergie. You can sign an 18 year old with 'potential' or a 34 year old with 'experience' but if their face doesn't fit they ain't going to play. Trouble with Mouurinho is he is very public with his criticism.Personally I would keep Martial and get rid of Mourinho.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-14975940
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Sid
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1 year ago

Steggo wrote:
1 year ago
marlon wrote:
1 year ago
Post-Fergie signings:
(-23) Shaw, Martial, Memphis, Pogba, Bailly, Lindelof
(24-27) Mata, Fellaini, di Maria, Herrera, Rojo, Blind, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Mkhitaryan, Lukaku
(28-) Schweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic, Matic, Sanchez

As far as I can see, there's no pattern of success or failure based on age or experience.
Thats a very pertinent observation Marlon. Dozers assumptions about Martial leaves out one vital element-the manager. We all know how Mourinho is with players as was Van Gaal and Moyes and Fergie. You can sign an 18 year old with 'potential' or a 34 year old with 'experience' but if their face doesn't fit they ain't going to play. Trouble with Mouurinho is he is very public with his criticism.Personally I would keep Martial and get rid of Mourinho.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-14975940
It's just the complete unwillingness to work with young players, and the inability to make improve them that's shite. He sees youth as defective because they make mistakes, because they're not world class already. He would say he's under pressure to get results, but so is every manager at every top club. Pep still manages to develop youth and challenge for trophies, so does Klopp, so does Sarri, Conte, Poch. It's easier when you're at a rich club than say Sarri at Napoli or Poch at Spurs because you can afford to buy 4 or 5 world class players to play alongside the kids.
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brianofnazarethffs
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1 year ago

I’m not so sure Martial is innocent in all of this. I think he has a mental block to become the very best like his physical talent suggests.

The break up of his first marriage and separation from his first child didn’t help considering how young he is. Add to the fact of so many manager changes and then a personality like Jose.... easy to see why it hasn’t worked out for him.

I think everyone’s hatred of Jose gives the players a nice easy excuse.
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Sid
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1 year ago

People on here have supported Martial over Jose even when they liked Jose early on in his United career, so I don't think it's their hatred of Mourinho that's fuelling this. I don't even think many people hate him tbf. They're just fed up of his shit, as happens by season 3.

It's about more than Martial n all. He's symbolic of Jose's inability to develop young players, which is something United fans obviously demand, Giggs, Scholes, Nevs etc. Personally I think he can get rid of Martial and still be in a job. But Gomes... if he uses, abuses, or ignores him he's finished. The kid is a special talent that belongs in United's first team.
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brianofnazarethffs
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1 year ago

I’m not sure that Jose is anti youth either, not everything is black and white. Look at McTominay... he’s put his trust in him and developed him. I think if they have that tough mentality he will try. I just don’t think Martial has which is a massive shame as I love him as a player. He’s just so inconsistent which is obviously down to being in and out of the team and his age. But he’s frustrated me last season when he has had the game time.

Your take on it also goes against the fact that United, for the last two years have played with the most number of youth players across all major leagues. Though that stat is helped by Pogba... tbf.

Whereas Pep and Klopp have not even made the top ten?

The thing is most United fans on the forum/twitter etc want to play “all the kids” as well as buy world class talent and win trophies...

I agree re: Gomez, I’ve got high hopes for him.
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Lazarus
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1 year ago

McTominay was only being used to embarrass Pogba into playing better...... and he didn't let Jose down.

“My player of the year has to be Scott McTominay,” he told MUTV, before explaining that he also considered giving a nod to Nemanja Matic.

“I was going for him, but then I understood in two awards for young players Scott was not getting one, I changed my mind because it wasn’t acceptable.

“He is the one who has done everything. He started the season in the academy and ended it playing big games in the Premier League. I thought this kid can not go home without an award.

“I always say that for me there are not young players or old players, it is just about the quality of the personality and this kid has everything that I want so I think that it is good for the younger boys in the academy to look at him as an example of player.

“We know it is important to have players like Jesse Lingard and Marcus Rashford that were born in the club, but it is right to have the right profile. Scott gives to other players that the dream is still alive.”


There are not young players or old players, just Jose players....
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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Sid
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1 year ago

brianofnazarethffs wrote:
1 year ago
I’m not sure that Jose is anti youth either, not everything is black and white. Look at McTominay... he’s put his trust in him and developed him. I think if they have that tough mentality he will try. I just don’t think Martial has which is a massive shame as I love him as a player. He’s just so inconsistent which is obviously down to being in and out of the team and his age. But he’s frustrated me last season when he has had the game time.

Your take on it also goes against the fact that United, for the last two years have played with the most number of youth players across all major leagues. Though that stat is helped by Pogba... tbf.

Whereas Pep and Klopp have not even made the top ten?

The thing is most United fans on the forum/twitter etc want to play “all the kids” as well as buy world class talent and win trophies...

I agree re: Gomez, I’ve got high hopes for him.
McTominay is programmable, that's why Jose picks him. He's actually shite. He's not very good in front of the back 4, not very good attacking, not box to box - he just does a job. He's in there to counter the criticism that's supported by the weight of history, that Jose is shite with young players.

Show us the stat that says we've played the most number of youth players across all major leagues. Because last season there was a famous horrendous stat about the lack of academy prospects that played for us or some shite. Even Howson was critical of Jose for it.

But playing youth players doesn't tell the whole story. He has to respect them and believe in them, an that means playing them in their proper positions more often, not just getting them "doing a job", because that squanders their talent and harms their development. Like Martial isn't going to learn anything playing as a fullback as he has on many occasions. It's just bollocks.
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brianofnazarethffs
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1 year ago

I read the article on Twitter and I can’t bloody find it now.

However a quick google search:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html

That includes all players across the Premier League and United themselves were only second to Everton last season for playing youth.

The twitter article covered European leagues too and Ajax were only in 10th place which surprised me.

City and Liverpool didn’t even make the list.
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Sid
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1 year ago

brianofnazarethffs wrote:
1 year ago
I read the article on Twitter and I can’t bloody find it now.

However a quick google search:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... eague.html

That includes all players across the Premier League and United themselves were only second to Everton last season for playing youth.

The twitter article covered European leagues too and Ajax were only in 10th place which surprised me.

City and Liverpool didn’t even make the list.
Nice one. Those stats are for Jose's first season when he was still using Gaal players like Rash and Martial, before he signed 6 more and benched em for the likes of Sanchez. I wonder what the stats will be like for this season...
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