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swampash
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6 months ago

...looks like you just skimmed my post and didn't read it properly Felwin.
My point was that this set up produced far more chances than we have seen of late, but the team seemed to be totally useless at converting them. If players aren't practicing how to get the ball in the net, in the heat of the game, then something is very much amiss with the coaching.
It's not about the players 'letting Jose down' at all.
It's about him finally switching to the kind of formation some of us have been calling for, the fact that it produced so many chances to score, but an appalling inability to get those chances on target, let alone in the net.
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits...
danniitronix
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6 months ago

No amount of coaching at the level at which these professional have played all their lives - winning trophies and titles since they were kids - can correct complete fuck ups.

As an EPL - European and International striker - you either convert an open goal or you don't. How could you get the best coach in the world to fix Lucky's open goal. What do you practice - open goal formations and training? You either have the instinct to covert like a predator, or you don't. I think he does more often than not, but he didn't covert it because he simply fucked up like a human now and again does. Blaming a manager for any gross fuck up is nuts. You might as well blame the Glazers.

In this respect, it is entirely right to say players let managers down when they totally shag up - Liverpool in the UCL, let's blame Klopp and the entire Liverpool board for the goal keeping fiasco. Bollocks of the highest order.
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Sid
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6 months ago

swampash wrote:
6 months ago
...looks like you just skimmed my post and didn't read it properly Felwin.
My point was that this set up produced far more chances than we have seen of late, but the team seemed to be totally useless at converting them. If players aren't practicing how to get the ball in the net, in the heat of the game, then something is very much amiss with the coaching.
It's not about the players 'letting Jose down' at all.
It's about him finally switching to the kind of formation some of us have been calling for, the fact that it produced so many chances to score, but an appalling inability to get those chances on target, let alone in the net.
Some of the chances were half chances at best. They weren't good. The long hsots we have are just to get the attacking stats up. Shaw getting in behind was pretty dangerous. But he's never more than one misplaced pass away from disappearing out of the team. But yeah, I agree with your general point. You can't just turn the attacking football on and off when it relies on rhythm and tempo. It's like anything, you need to practice it to be good at it. But we've got Burnley and Watford away next, so chances are Jose will revert back to his negative shite.
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Sid
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6 months ago

danniitronix wrote:
6 months ago
No amount of coaching at the level at which these professional have played all their lives - winning trophies and titles since they were kids - can correct complete fuck ups.

As an EPL - European and International striker - you either convert an open goal or you don't. How could you get the best coach in the world to fix Lucky's open goal. What do you practice - open goal formations and training? You either have the instinct to covert like a predator, or you don't. I think he does more often than not, but he didn't covert it because he simply fucked up like a human now and again does. Blaming a manager for any gross fuck up is nuts. You might as well blame the Glazers.

In this respect, it is entirely right to say players let managers down when they totally shag up - Liverpool in the UCL, let's blame Klopp and the entire Liverpool board for the goal keeping fiasco. Bollocks of the highest order.
If Lukaku can't score simple chances, why did Jose sign him? Jose is ultimately responsible

The clever thing Jose has done is manage to detatch himself from the players he's signed. Fans will go after players for being shit season after season, and Jose will call em out as well - and at no point will anybody say hang on why did we sign this div, he's not good enough to play for United

I'll tell you why, we signed Rom because he was the only 'specimen' shithouse striker available at the time, even though he's a fanny, so we had to get him. Joses philosophy relies upon it.
danniitronix
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6 months ago

Sid wrote:
6 months ago
danniitronix wrote:
6 months ago
No amount of coaching at the level at which these professional have played all their lives - winning trophies and titles since they were kids - can correct complete fuck ups.

As an EPL - European and International striker - you either convert an open goal or you don't. How could you get the best coach in the world to fix Lucky's open goal. What do you practice - open goal formations and training? You either have the instinct to covert like a predator, or you don't. I think he does more often than not, but he didn't covert it because he simply fucked up like a human now and again does. Blaming a manager for any gross fuck up is nuts. You might as well blame the Glazers.

In this respect, it is entirely right to say players let managers down when they totally shag up - Liverpool in the UCL, let's blame Klopp and the entire Liverpool board for the goal keeping fiasco. Bollocks of the highest order.
If Lukaku can't score simple chances, why did Jose sign him? Jose is ultimately responsible

The clever thing Jose has done is manage to detatch himself from the players he's signed. Fans will go after players for being shit season after season, and Jose will call em out as well - and at no point will anybody say hang on why did we sign this div, he's not good enough to play for United

I'll tell you why, we signed Rom because he was the only 'specimen' shithouse striker available at the time, even though he's a fanny, so we had to get him. Joses philosophy relies upon it.
That's too simplistic and you know it Sid.

Jose is ultimately responsible - no actually, it is the owner, so the Glazers, then the board (so Charlton, SAF and Gill, and Woodward, and others), they appointed Jose and voted to extend the contract. See where you can go with this responsibility narrative.

Lucky had a pretty good record in the EPL and was scoring for fun, so on paper not a bad choice with proven EPL success. Agree that he was also available, so with fans pining for a marquee striker, it wasn't a bad second-level choice. Not the grandee signing but a quality choice.

He's missed a sitter, so no way is that anyone's fault other than Lucky's.

I'll give you that Jose relies on thugs but not always, and they have come in all shapes and sizes - Drogba, Eto' but in RM he had Benzema and Higuian - not exactly shit house cunts - and in that season he and Real, absolutely cunted every La Liga side and record at that time - over 100 points and a GD of +80.

He's been a twat and if he continues he will be out of a job. He knows it, we all know it. However, his record at United is still pretty good and his career it is jaw-droppingly good. You don't get that by just being a cunt, you must have some intrinsic x-factor and skill. You must. It is not all luck. Has that now gone - maybe, but at a time when he is fighting for his job, I'd back him to steady the ship and at least get through this season and take an honest look at himself.

I don't give a shit about players, if he doesn't want them, fuck them off - he made mistakes, and we pay the price for it. Happens everywhere. We have shit loads of cash, so I wouldn't get excited about the spend.

More generally, I think it is fascinating how this will play out. How will Jose sort this out? I'm more interested in watching united now, backs to the wall (or not?) and seeing the reaction (or maybe lack of?). What is clear is that this is going to be one of the most interesting run of EPL games for us for ages.
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Sid
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Posts: 22037
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6 months ago

danniitronix wrote:
6 months ago
Sid wrote:
6 months ago
danniitronix wrote:
6 months ago
No amount of coaching at the level at which these professional have played all their lives - winning trophies and titles since they were kids - can correct complete fuck ups.

As an EPL - European and International striker - you either convert an open goal or you don't. How could you get the best coach in the world to fix Lucky's open goal. What do you practice - open goal formations and training? You either have the instinct to covert like a predator, or you don't. I think he does more often than not, but he didn't covert it because he simply fucked up like a human now and again does. Blaming a manager for any gross fuck up is nuts. You might as well blame the Glazers.

In this respect, it is entirely right to say players let managers down when they totally shag up - Liverpool in the UCL, let's blame Klopp and the entire Liverpool board for the goal keeping fiasco. Bollocks of the highest order.
If Lukaku can't score simple chances, why did Jose sign him? Jose is ultimately responsible

The clever thing Jose has done is manage to detatch himself from the players he's signed. Fans will go after players for being shit season after season, and Jose will call em out as well - and at no point will anybody say hang on why did we sign this div, he's not good enough to play for United

I'll tell you why, we signed Rom because he was the only 'specimen' shithouse striker available at the time, even though he's a fanny, so we had to get him. Joses philosophy relies upon it.
That's too simplistic and you know it Sid.

Jose is ultimately responsible - no actually, it is the owner, so the Glazers, then the board (so Charlton, SAF and Gill, and Woodward, and others), they appointed Jose and voted to extend the contract. See where you can go with this responsibility narrative.

Lucky had a pretty good record in the EPL and was scoring for fun, so on paper not a bad choice with proven EPL success. Agree that he was also available, so with fans pining for a marquee striker, it wasn't a bad second-level choice. Not the grandee signing but a quality choice.

He's missed a sitter, so no way is that anyone's fault other than Lucky's.

I'll give you that Jose relies on thugs but not always, and they have come in all shapes and sizes - Drogba, Eto' but in RM he had Benzema and Higuian - not exactly shit house cunts - and in that season he and Real, absolutely cunted every La Liga side and record at that time - over 100 points and a GD of +80.

He's been a twat and if he continues he will be out of a job. He knows it, we all know it. However, his record at United is still pretty good and his career it is jaw-droppingly good. You don't get that by just being a cunt, you must have some intrinsic x-factor and skill. You must. It is not all luck. Has that now gone - maybe, but at a time when he is fighting for his job, I'd back him to steady the ship and at least get through this season and take an honest look at himself.

I don't give a shit about players, if he doesn't want them, fuck them off - he made mistakes, and we pay the price for it. Happens everywhere. We have shit loads of cash, so I wouldn't get excited about the spend.

More generally, I think it is fascinating how this will play out. How will Jose sort this out? I'm more interested in watching united now, backs to the wall (or not?) and seeing the reaction (or maybe lack of?). What is clear is that this is going to be one of the most interesting run of EPL games for us for ages.
Yeah I agree, ultimately the Glazers and board are responsible for hiring another manager, the third one, that plays negative football when it's not suitable for United. But we're judging the manager here. We can't change the Glazers and Woodward unless we get some AK47s and break a few laws. So like I said 3 years ago - and copped a shitload of abuse for my troubles - Jose's system relies on a top CF because that's where most of the goals come from. Like you saw with Ibra, when the CF doesn't score, there's not much coming from elsewhere. So we had to sign a top CF like Lewandowski, not the Everton striker, not unless Jose was going to adapt his philosophy and incorporate more fluid attacking football between the lines that involves wide men and midfielders. But as we've seen now he's had 5 windows to build his team, he's built a long ball shithouse team - that's when we actually play with a gameplan.

Yeah tbf the soap opera is incredible, now it's coming to a head. When we finally get a new manager who keeps everything in house, who say if he wants new CBs keeps it private so's not to decimate the confidence of the CBs he has, who won't throw young players under the bus, then following United will be fucking boring. The focus will be on the pitch rather than off it.
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Lazarus
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6 months ago

Feel like i need a shower now........
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
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