Brexit

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sheesh
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5 months ago

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Sid
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5 months ago

bman2 wrote:
5 months ago
It’s pretty obvious what the future holds for Britain, I’ve been saying it since the referendum and nothing has happened to change my mind. There will be a cliff edge Brexit with no deal because Brexit isn’t actually a policy, it’s just a xenophobic nationalist mantra whose enthusiasts are incapable of compromise or accommodation. Then the Brexiteers will fuck up the country with a hard right Brexit, trying to recreate Britain of the 1870s. Things will get so bad that Corbo will take over, and fuck things up even more trying to recreate Britain of the 1970s. Then eventually, centrist Britain will recognize the inevitably rational thing to do, as it did in the 1970s, and join Europe again.
Your "rational" centrists have already taken us back to the 1870s with their victorian levels of poverty and vast riches for the few. Foodbanks, slum housing, insecure work, prejudice, bigotry

Over the last 40 years your rational centrists laid the foundations for fascism by selling the great post war lie that liberals will create a better world for all, when really they made the poor poorer and rich richer than they've ever been whilst destroying the planet

They created the circumstances for fash, now they're accommodating them rather than backing the left and revolutionary forces because they'd rather preserve capitalism and its oppression and exploitation than challenge it

Liberalism is dead. Fash take brazil, US, italy, hungary, estonia, soon france, germany, UK - and liberals are to blame. They had the reigns of capialism post war and the rich just got richer and countless communities destroyed by capital rather than Hitler's bombs.

There's nothing sensible or rational about straddling patriarchal white supremacist capitalism. It's fucking cowardly. There's not going to be any real swing back to liberalism post 2008 crash because you have no answers to the consequences of the aforementioned which all stem from the roots of capitalism. And now you can throw climate change in there too, that's a direct result of capitalist exploitation.

And it'll be the organised working class and the "extreme left wing" that will defeat fascism, once again, before you try and claim centrists / middle class libs will bring about peace too.
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Robbo
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5 months ago

Lets all hail King BoJo and crown prince Nigel =))
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Sid
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5 months ago

sheesh wrote:
5 months ago
Like an eminent historian said about this vid on twitter said, we're well on the path to fascism. But don't worry the smug middle class liberals like Bman will save us by doing absolutely nothing but blaming working class people.
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Sid
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5 months ago

How you deal with fascists



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marlon
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5 months ago

The results aren't actually that bad.

In 2014:
BNP/UKIP/Tories = 52%
Lib Dem = 7%
Lab/Green/SNP/Plaid = 36%

2019:
UKIP/Brexit/Tory = 44%
Lib/Change = 23%
Lab/Green/SNP/Plaid = 31%

And 2014 UKIP/BNP 29% -> 2019 Brexit/UKIP 35%.

In those 3 groupings, the 2015 general election looks very similar to the 2014 eu election.
The 2019 eu result compared to the 2017 general election has the right wing block roughly equal but ~15% of the vote moving from the left to the centre.

In terms of a 2nd ref, looks like 35% want no deal and 40% want to remain. 25% interested in whatever compromise lab/tories might come up with. But I guess we won't get one - if we got Boris as PM I guess we'd leave without a deal and even if we had an election first, he could clearly get 40%+ of the vote on that platform and be comfortably the biggest party. Quite likely too late for labour to change their strategy and rebound in the same way if there's an election this year (and I don't think Labour have repaid the goodwill that saw so many voters move to Labour to stop the predicted tory majority in 2017, so I doubt we'd get that again) and with first past the post it could be quite ugly.

So actually the results are very bad.
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bman2
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5 months ago

The good news is that it looks like Labour will officially become a pro-Remain party now. "Brexit" effectively being defined as nut job no deal brexit -- it's obvious that's the way the tories will go -- leaves no space left for Corbyn's socialist brexit fantasy. Drop that delusional, and you're left with a straight choice between hard right brexit and a remain coalition from the centre-right all the way to the left.
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Sid
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5 months ago

bman2 wrote:
5 months ago
The good news is that it looks like Labour will officially become a pro-Remain party now. "Brexit" effectively being defined as nut job no deal brexit -- it's obvious that's the way the tories will go -- leaves no space left for Corbyn's socialist brexit fantasy. Drop that delusional, and you're left with a straight choice between hard right brexit and a remain coalition from the centre-right all the way to the left.
A left wing brexit was never an option. We're getting a right wing brexit. Labour are just respecting the referendum result as they should or else mistrust in politicians and a disgust at the political class will rise even more.

Looks like another bad night for centrists. Europe is more left v right now. We'll have to wait another 4 years before the heoric centrists save us.
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marlon
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5 months ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe ... ting-story

I don't really understand all these european coalitions, but judging by the bbc's left/right leaning thing, it looks more like the left lost out to liberals and the centre right lost out to the far right.
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marlon
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5 months ago

Sid wrote:
5 months ago
bman2 wrote:
5 months ago
The good news is that it looks like Labour will officially become a pro-Remain party now. "Brexit" effectively being defined as nut job no deal brexit -- it's obvious that's the way the tories will go -- leaves no space left for Corbyn's socialist brexit fantasy. Drop that delusional, and you're left with a straight choice between hard right brexit and a remain coalition from the centre-right all the way to the left.
A left wing brexit was never an option. We're getting a right wing brexit. Labour are just respecting the referendum result as they should or else mistrust in politicians and a disgust at the political class will rise even more.

Looks like another bad night for centrists. Europe is more left v right now. We'll have to wait another 4 years before the heoric centrists save us.
Corbyn and whoever else have been advocating brexit for decades I thought? The problem is he and whoever else believes in a left brexit have said nothing for 4 years. On the other hand Farage got himself on every tv and radio show pushing his view. Since the referendum he's managed to convert most leave voters into no deal leavers. Meanwhile no one even knows what a lw brexit would look like.

And Labour passively respecting the referendum result is allowing the far right to set the agenda which is total bullshit.
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