Tables ladders and chairs

The original Den of Iniquity
User avatar
Alfonso Bedoya
Legend
Posts: 13448
Joined: 8 years ago

5 years ago

redzebs wrote:So anyway, the bad guy won due to interference then the ceo came down to calm the situation down then the good guy beat the fuck out of him and hit him with a chair and he started foaming at the mouth, was pretty sweet.
:))

Hijacked...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 6881
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
FuB wrote:I think you have to bear in mind that a lot of GPs and doctors are not given the facts... or given really misleading "studies" that are no more than marketing bilge or biased beyond belief
That's not altogether true... I've seen a few documentaries about doctors getting kickbacks from the drug barons for prescribing their shite... if you're not educated about the drugs your prescribing, that sounds like it should be grounds for malpractice... but it's not... the truth is, most doctors don't give a fuck...

It's like cops... we're handed this pack of lies in the media about the "brave, thin blue line, who risk their lives daily to protect us from a criminal horde"... don't tell you that most cops are sons of sons of cops, who get into being cops because it's the family business, and it's considered a good life...

Doctors are largely like that... it's a well paying profession to get into... yeah we see lots of great examples on the telly about the selfless dedication of some of the good ones, like Médecins Sans Frontières... but they're by a long way the minority... most are more about the country club lifestyle...

Years ago, I went to a doctor for some advice about boils on my back... I had linked it to the vitamins I had started taking... I asked him, if there was something in the vitamins that weren't agreeing with me... this prick told me, no word of a lie, that "you don't need vitamins, just eat well, people fret too much about their diet, the human body can survive on a Big Mac and a milkshake once a day"...

I left, pissed off and never went back... but the next time I went to see a doctor, some years later, I had a chat with him about what that fucker had told me... he laughed, and said, "that doctor was just making the point that the human body is a durable machine that will still run, even on substandard fuel"... I just shook my head and told him that doctors should be giving patients better advice on looking after their health, not being flippant... he said, and again, no word of a lie... he told me that, he agreed, but doctors weren't really equipped for that... in the 7 years of study it takes to become a doctor, they will probably only sit through 1 lecture, a couple hours long on nutrition...

And it's true... doctors aren't trained to deal with your health... they're trained to deal with your sickness...
I agree with pretty much everything you say there but I think it might be just a little unfair to imply that most doctors are more interested in the money than the profession. I'm sure there are a LOT who went into the profession for the financial reward but I'd like to have a little more faith in humanity and think that surely the majority actually wanted to be a doctor for slightly more altruistic reasons than that.

It's no secret at all that doctors get bombarded by drug company reps and you only need to see a doctor's desk to see how much marketing shit they get. It certainly seems to get to the point where doctors are virtually in the pocket of a particular drug company and, if you were able to analyse it, you'd probably find that nearly all the drugs they prescribe - for whatever complaint - are from that drug company. This is a clear indication that doctors aren't necessarily making informed decisions but it's just as true that drug companies deliberately bury evidence and make fake and heavily biased trials to give evidence for the - probably very low or potentially non-existent - efficacy of their product(s). It's easy to say that doctors should be less lazy and better informed but, if the information they have is deliberately cooked, what "informed" decision will they be making? I'm sure there are many many lazy, money-grabbing, downright incompetent doctors out there but it's the pharmaceutical industry that's the real scourge on humanity.
Rant's official artificial intelligence
User avatar
Lazarus
Legend
Posts: 16181
Joined: 8 years ago

5 years ago

My local health trust fucked up my care, a simple broken bone, and nearly killed me twice and as a result I'm registered disabled and my life looks nothing like it used to. Then they lied and intimidated us legally and financially until we had no choice but to settle a ten year legal battle where i got fuck all but our legal costs covered. So i've had the health service to the back teeth, yet i still have to go regularly.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 6881
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

5 years ago

Laz, I know you've had a really tough time of it and I hope you didn't think I was trying to say that all doctors are saints and no healthcare professional fucks up
Rant's official artificial intelligence
User avatar
Lazarus
Legend
Posts: 16181
Joined: 8 years ago

5 years ago

FuB wrote:Laz, I know you've had a really tough time of it and I hope you didn't think I was trying to say that all doctors are saints and no healthcare professional fucks up

Not at all. There have to be some, i was a hospital Librarian for 8 years and met very few though, unbelievable arrogance is a big problem.
"Respect! Respect! Respect Maan! Respect! Respect!........." [-X
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 6881
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

5 years ago

Lazarus wrote:
FuB wrote:Laz, I know you've had a really tough time of it and I hope you didn't think I was trying to say that all doctors are saints and no healthcare professional fucks up

Not at all. There have to be some, i was a hospital Librarian for 8 years and met very few though, unbelievable arrogance is a big problem.
I've never had the experience of being inside the healthcare industry so, obviously, much of what I say is based on conjecture. Many many moons ago, I spent three years doing a chemistry degree and my major interest was medicinal chemistry and it's something I've maintained an interest in. In the end, I was a shit chemist so I ended up spending the rest of my life working in computing. I haven't looked back but I still find myself interested in drugs and the pharmaceutical industry.
Rant's official artificial intelligence
User avatar
Alfonso Bedoya
Legend
Posts: 13448
Joined: 8 years ago

5 years ago

FuB wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
FuB wrote:I think you have to bear in mind that a lot of GPs and doctors are not given the facts... or given really misleading "studies" that are no more than marketing bilge or biased beyond belief
That's not altogether true... I've seen a few documentaries about doctors getting kickbacks from the drug barons for prescribing their shite... if you're not educated about the drugs your prescribing, that sounds like it should be grounds for malpractice... but it's not... the truth is, most doctors don't give a fuck...

It's like cops... we're handed this pack of lies in the media about the "brave, thin blue line, who risk their lives daily to protect us from a criminal horde"... don't tell you that most cops are sons of sons of cops, who get into being cops because it's the family business, and it's considered a good life...

Doctors are largely like that... it's a well paying profession to get into... yeah we see lots of great examples on the telly about the selfless dedication of some of the good ones, like Médecins Sans Frontières... but they're by a long way the minority... most are more about the country club lifestyle...

Years ago, I went to a doctor for some advice about boils on my back... I had linked it to the vitamins I had started taking... I asked him, if there was something in the vitamins that weren't agreeing with me... this prick told me, no word of a lie, that "you don't need vitamins, just eat well, people fret too much about their diet, the human body can survive on a Big Mac and a milkshake once a day"...

I left, pissed off and never went back... but the next time I went to see a doctor, some years later, I had a chat with him about what that fucker had told me... he laughed, and said, "that doctor was just making the point that the human body is a durable machine that will still run, even on substandard fuel"... I just shook my head and told him that doctors should be giving patients better advice on looking after their health, not being flippant... he said, and again, no word of a lie... he told me that, he agreed, but doctors weren't really equipped for that... in the 7 years of study it takes to become a doctor, they will probably only sit through 1 lecture, a couple hours long on nutrition...

And it's true... doctors aren't trained to deal with your health... they're trained to deal with your sickness...
I agree with pretty much everything you say there but I think it might be just a little unfair to imply that most doctors are more interested in the money than the profession. I'm sure there are a LOT who went into the profession for the financial reward but I'd like to have a little more faith in humanity and think that surely the majority actually wanted to be a doctor for slightly more altruistic reasons than that.

It's no secret at all that doctors get bombarded by drug company reps and you only need to see a doctor's desk to see how much marketing shit they get. It certainly seems to get to the point where doctors are virtually in the pocket of a particular drug company and, if you were able to analyse it, you'd probably find that nearly all the drugs they prescribe - for whatever complaint - are from that drug company. This is a clear indication that doctors aren't necessarily making informed decisions but it's just as true that drug companies deliberately bury evidence and make fake and heavily biased trials to give evidence for the - probably very low or potentially non-existent - efficacy of their product(s). It's easy to say that doctors should be less lazy and better informed but, if the information they have is deliberately cooked, what "informed" decision will they be making? I'm sure there are many many lazy, money-grabbing, downright incompetent doctors out there but it's the pharmaceutical industry that's the real scourge on humanity.
Right... so then all these, "naive" doctors who have prescribed these drugs with honourable intentions, believing they were doing right by their patients...

Where are they, when...

All these patients end up in mental wards after break downs... end up in court fighting the drug companies in mass lawsuits, claiming they couldn't stop taking these "non addictive drugs without brutal months of withdrawal, or even end up in documentaries claiming they were let down by their doctors who, just like the drug companies deny that the "drug was the problem"...

Millions of people have their lives severely affected by these drugs... they all got them from doctors... and yet, you'll see very few doctors willing to risk their reputation to speak out in support of these people or even fewer willing to stand up to the drug industry...

I never said they were "ALL" corrupt... I'm not even saying they're all bad people... but the vast majority are dues paying members of a profession that just like any other, closed club, looks after it's own...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 6881
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

5 years ago

Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Right... so then all these, "naive" doctors who have prescribed these drugs with honourable intentions, believing they were doing right by their patients...

Where are they, when...

All these patients end up in mental wards after break downs... end up in court fighting the drug companies in mass lawsuits, claiming they couldn't stop taking these "non addictive drugs without brutal months of withdrawal, or even end up in documentaries claiming they were let down by their doctors who, just like the drug companies deny that the "drug was the problem"...

Millions of people have their lives severely affected by these drugs... they all got them from doctors... and yet, you'll see very few doctors willing to risk their reputation to speak out in support of these people or even fewer willing to stand up to the drug industry...

I never said they were "ALL" corrupt... I'm not even saying they're all bad people... but the vast majority are dues paying members of a profession that just like any other, closed club, looks after it's own...
Alf, I'm not intending to defend doctors and I've already stated that in a previous answer. I can certainly understand that, given your own personal drug horror story, this is a pretty emotive subject for you and I don't want to give you the impression I think any of the shit you had to deal with at the hands of doctors is defensible in any way.

I didn't say nor intend to suggest that doctors are naive. I just pointed out that it's hard to make an informed decision about health care if the information is deliberately cooked. If a pharmaceutical company buries all the information there is on negative side-effects and promotes deliberately tweaked data (and this DOES happen and happens A LOT) saying this particular drug is really effective against this particular complaint and there are no negative side-effects, what "truth" is there for a doctor to base a decision on?

I also didn't say that you said they were all corrupt. You said "the truth is, most doctors don't give a fuck..." and I used the word "most" as well.

I totally agree that the healthcare profession has some severe corruption and i'm in complete agreement that a good number of healthcare practitioners are complicit in this, either knowingly or simply by inaction... however, you seem to be laying all the blame on the doctors themselves and I think the picture is a whole lot bigger. I'm sure you know this and I was simply attempting - possibly badly - to bring some more angles into the discussion.
Rant's official artificial intelligence
User avatar
Alfonso Bedoya
Legend
Posts: 13448
Joined: 8 years ago

5 years ago

FuB wrote:
Alfonso Bedoya wrote:
Right... so then all these, "naive" doctors who have prescribed these drugs with honourable intentions, believing they were doing right by their patients...

Where are they, when...

All these patients end up in mental wards after break downs... end up in court fighting the drug companies in mass lawsuits, claiming they couldn't stop taking these "non addictive drugs without brutal months of withdrawal, or even end up in documentaries claiming they were let down by their doctors who, just like the drug companies deny that the "drug was the problem"...

Millions of people have their lives severely affected by these drugs... they all got them from doctors... and yet, you'll see very few doctors willing to risk their reputation to speak out in support of these people or even fewer willing to stand up to the drug industry...

I never said they were "ALL" corrupt... I'm not even saying they're all bad people... but the vast majority are dues paying members of a profession that just like any other, closed club, looks after it's own...
Alf, I'm not intending to defend doctors and I've already stated that in a previous answer. I can certainly understand that, given your own personal drug horror story, this is a pretty emotive subject for you and I don't want to give you the impression I think any of the shit you had to deal with at the hands of doctors is defensible in any way.

I didn't say nor intend to suggest that doctors are naive. I just pointed out that it's hard to make an informed decision about health care if the information is deliberately cooked. If a pharmaceutical company buries all the information there is on negative side-effects and promotes deliberately tweaked data (and this DOES happen and happens A LOT) saying this particular drug is really effective against this particular complaint and there are no negative side-effects, what "truth" is there for a doctor to base a decision on?

I also didn't say that you said they were all corrupt. You said "the truth is, most doctors don't give a fuck..." and I used the word "most" as well.

I totally agree that the healthcare profession has some severe corruption and i'm in complete agreement that a good number of healthcare practitioners are complicit in this, either knowingly or simply by inaction... however, you seem to be laying all the blame on the doctors themselves and I think the picture is a whole lot bigger. I'm sure you know this and I was simply attempting - possibly badly - to bring some more angles into the discussion.
No... I didn't intend to sound aggressive, and I hadn't taken any offence... but I am disagreeing with you...
"Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don't need badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabrón and ching' tu madre! Come out from that shit-hole of yours. I have to speak to you."
User avatar
FuB
Legend
Posts: 6881
Joined: 5 years ago
Location: Littlewoods Data Entry Department

5 years ago

good stuff... not for a second expecting you to agree with me.

how do you feel that transparency and responsibility can be improved in the healthcare profession? Is it the money involved that's the problem?
Rant's official artificial intelligence
Post Reply